Author Topic: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism  (Read 7404 times)

scifisam

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #30 on: Mar 25, 2007, 05:50:22 PM »
Re the calcium comments, soya milk has more calcium than moo milk, culturally asian countries have only recently been using animal milk products, its a western influence our bodies break down soya more easily than animal milk, and that poses the question is there any wonder why so many people are allergic as diary consumption via milk or other products has increased. Have a look at food labels unnecessary milk added to bread 4 example...


Yes, it has lots of calcium, because it's been fortified with calcium. It's not there in those quantities naturall. Even with the other methods of getting calcium into children, like green leafy veg and tofu, it's going to really very difficult to manage without ending up depriving them of other nutrients (remembering that children need more calcium than adults). I expect it is possible to do, but for the average person on the average kincome with the average kid? Well done if they do believe it's the best way and they manage to do it, but they shouldn't look down on anyone who doesn't do it. I don't think they do, though; it's non-parents who don't actually understand at all who look down on parents who give their kids dairy products.

Even with soya milk, there are problems:

Quote
Certain infant formulas (both cow's milk and soya milk based) produced from concentrates have been reported as having high levels of aluminium and their suitability for infants has been questioned.

(That's for formula only - ordinary soya milk has also been accused of having high levels of aluminium, but it doesn't).

So the alternative to cows' milk formula is soy formula (not straight soy milk- that isn't suitable for babies), and I know a lot of women do use it. Thing is, they then have to contend with other problems, like that aluminium thing, and the fact that some kids become intolerant to soy. You can't win!

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #31 on: Mar 25, 2007, 06:06:54 PM »
All formulas are fortified. Lets not forget that there are cost effective sources of calcium, vegan diets require much home cooking that works out cheaper and kinder to environment... I don't wish every mother to stop using milk, but to know the alternatives and make choices based on those grounds. Other sources of calcium, that u can give to children from 3 or 4 months, before that only breast milk is pref as it contains balanced amino acids: cauliflower, swedes, cabbage.. And more
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory~Aldo Gucci

Bilii

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #32 on: Mar 25, 2007, 06:15:12 PM »
Floradix is an iron supplement taken by pregnant women the world over. It's a syrup and not as hard work on your insides as iron pills (and trust me, i know them all!)
Floradix is a fab iron supplement & verrry tasty.

scifisam

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #33 on: Mar 25, 2007, 08:18:56 PM »
All formulas are fortified.

I know - my comment about foritification related to actual soy milk, not formula.

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Lets not forget that there are cost effective sources of calcium, vegan diets require much home cooking that works out cheaper and kinder to environment... I don't wish every mother to stop using milk, but to know the alternatives and make choices based on those grounds. Other sources of calcium, that u can give to children from 3 or 4 months, before that only breast milk is pref as it contains balanced amino acids: cauliflower, swedes, cabbage.. And more

4 months btw, not 3, except in exceptional circumstances. :)

I think you are right that parents should know the alternatives, but I also think it's important to remember just how difficult a vegan diet for children can be. It's difficult enough to get kids in general to eat cauliflower, swedes and cabbage, at least once they start school and get peer pressure not to eat them!

huggles

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #34 on: Mar 26, 2007, 10:34:59 AM »
All formulas are fortified.

I know - my comment about foritification related to actual soy milk, not formula.

Quote
Lets not forget that there are cost effective sources of calcium, vegan diets require much home cooking that works out cheaper and kinder to environment... I don't wish every mother to stop using milk, but to know the alternatives and make choices based on those grounds. Other sources of calcium, that u can give to children from 3 or 4 months, before that only breast milk is pref as it contains balanced amino acids: cauliflower, swedes, cabbage.. And more

4 months btw, not 3, except in exceptional circumstances. :)

I think you are right that parents should know the alternatives, but I also think it's important to remember just how difficult a vegan diet for children can be. It's difficult enough to get kids in general to eat cauliflower, swedes and cabbage, at least once they start school and get peer pressure not to eat them!

Do you really think not eating vegetables comes from peer pressure??
I think its all about what children are bought up on.
I didn't use jar or packet food when my kids were small, i prepared my own foods.  To start with that was mixing differents veggies together and pureeing them until they ate just the same as the rest of the family.

I remember my son at about 7 or 8 years going to dinner at a friends and his mum asked my son what he'd like to eat, she suggested the usual sausage and chips, nuggets and chips and he asked for pasta and brocolli.  She was shocked that kids ate such stuff out of choice.
My kids eat all vegetables and love them.  We're not great lovers of salad and my kids dont like salad much, which makes me believe its what you bring your kids up on that they develop a taste for.

Offline Slinky

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #35 on: Mar 26, 2007, 11:20:30 AM »
There is a theory that suggests that childrens dislike of vegetables might be inate and a defensive mechanism.  They show a pretty uniform fussiness about things that were most likely to cause them harm - green vegetables, meats and fruits!  This can be overcome in time by constant exposure and training.
I do not want people to be agreeable, as it saves me the trouble of liking them. - Jane Austen

scifisam

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #36 on: Mar 26, 2007, 05:33:23 PM »
All formulas are fortified.

I know - my comment about foritification related to actual soy milk, not formula.

Quote
Lets not forget that there are cost effective sources of calcium, vegan diets require much home cooking that works out cheaper and kinder to environment... I don't wish every mother to stop using milk, but to know the alternatives and make choices based on those grounds. Other sources of calcium, that u can give to children from 3 or 4 months, before that only breast milk is pref as it contains balanced amino acids: cauliflower, swedes, cabbage.. And more

4 months btw, not 3, except in exceptional circumstances. :)

I think you are right that parents should know the alternatives, but I also think it's important to remember just how difficult a vegan diet for children can be. It's difficult enough to get kids in general to eat cauliflower, swedes and cabbage, at least once they start school and get peer pressure not to eat them!

Do you really think not eating vegetables comes from peer pressure??
I think its all about what children are bought up on.
I didn't use jar or packet food when my kids were small, i prepared my own foods.  To start with that was mixing differents veggies together and pureeing them until they ate just the same as the rest of the family.

I remember my son at about 7 or 8 years going to dinner at a friends and his mum asked my son what he'd like to eat, she suggested the usual sausage and chips, nuggets and chips and he asked for pasta and brocolli.  She was shocked that kids ate such stuff out of choice.
My kids eat all vegetables and love them.  We're not great lovers of salad and my kids dont like salad much, which makes me believe its what you bring your kids up on that they develop a taste for.

It is so with my daughter. She's been brought up on an excellent varied diet with lots of veggies (I also made all her own food as a baby - partly because it was cheaper; there are some great baby foods out there), but once she started getting more friends at school her tastes suddenly changed, and she won't eat things like cabbage any more. She also started watching more TV at her Nan's house, and reading certain books, and the kids in those media nearly always go 'eww' at the sight of vegetables.

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #37 on: Mar 26, 2007, 10:07:35 PM »
I agree me my brother n sister all love veg, my earliesu memories are picking and cutting runner beans, sat on the shed steps with my grandad, and picking wild blackcurrants with my mum. The only veg i do not like is brussel sprouts and cos a boy at school told me they were some small animals brain, bringing children up on pureed fruit such as bananas and avacados can be cost effective when u deduct the price of meat from the weekly shop and grow what u can :-D 
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory~Aldo Gucci

slightlyspikeygirl

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #38 on: Mar 27, 2007, 12:42:20 AM »
The only veg i do not like is brussel sprouts and cos a boy at school told me they were some small animals brain

Well, there ya go, peer pressure.

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #39 on: Mar 27, 2007, 05:55:26 PM »
BECAUSE IT'S FOR A COW might be a clue

I would appreciate it if you didn't speak to me as if I was an idiot. It doesn't make me very much inclined to listen to you.
That wasn't particularly directed at anyone or meant in the sense of someone being stupid or an idiot.

Sorry if it seemed that way =/
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scifisam

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #40 on: Mar 27, 2007, 05:58:38 PM »
I agree me my brother n sister all love veg, my earliesu memories are picking and cutting runner beans, sat on the shed steps with my grandad, and picking wild blackcurrants with my mum. The only veg i do not like is brussel sprouts and cos a boy at school told me they were some small animals brain, bringing children up on pureed fruit such as bananas and avacados can be cost effective when u deduct the price of meat from the weekly shop and grow what u can :-D 

Yup, pureeing your own fruit and veggies is usually cheaper - though I don't think it would work beyond the age of about 10 months! ;D It's just a pity that parents aren't the only influence on a child* - like I said, my daughter's current aversion to some veggies is most definitely not down to me failing to bring her up with a healthy diet.

How do your kids respond to the peer pressure, TwirlyFemme? :)

*course, sometimes it's a blessing that there are lots of other influences.

Offline opc

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #41 on: Mar 27, 2007, 06:05:33 PM »
OPC, I'm afraid that if you think there's no need for dairy products after the age of 6, you're going to have to back that up. Kids of that age are growing: they are literally creating new bome all the time, and they need tons of calcium. Girls in particular do, unless they want arthritis at a much younger age than they otherwise would. Calcium is available in other forms, but it's very difficult to get enough of it into kids that age in those forms.

I also don't understand why you'd give meat up until the age of six. While it's very difficult to have a vegan child, for the reason I just gave, it's pretty easy to have a healthy vegetarin child, of any age. Why meat till 6?

Sorry I just thought it was funny. Well I still do. Hmm I guess it got a bit too heated in here?

But yeah it's true all you have to do is look at Asia. Yeah they're a bit smaller than the western world but it's better than cancer and allergy and heart disease.

I know this website is sooooooo bias but it's got alot of info
Milk sucks

When you're about 6 you have a fully developed human (not adult) body and you're no longer a baby. I would say it's easier to give a kid under that age meat rather than faffing about trying to give them a million different vegetables. It's a good start in life...
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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #42 on: Mar 27, 2007, 08:59:45 PM »
Sci fi sam, i do not have children... But when i do i'm sure i'll be posting about the veggie disliking little darlings ... And before anyone posts about not being qualified or able to understand motherhood issues i ask u politely not to, this thread asked for info etc, which i duly have from own childhood experiences and that of friends who do have children. :-D     
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory~Aldo Gucci

scifisam

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #43 on: Mar 27, 2007, 09:33:28 PM »
OPC, I'm afraid that if you think there's no need for dairy products after the age of 6, you're going to have to back that up. Kids of that age are growing: they are literally creating new bome all the time, and they need tons of calcium. Girls in particular do, unless they want arthritis at a much younger age than they otherwise would. Calcium is available in other forms, but it's very difficult to get enough of it into kids that age in those forms.

I also don't understand why you'd give meat up until the age of six. While it's very difficult to have a vegan child, for the reason I just gave, it's pretty easy to have a healthy vegetarin child, of any age. Why meat till 6?

Sorry I just thought it was funny. Well I still do. Hmm I guess it got a bit too heated in here?

But yeah it's true all you have to do is look at Asia. Yeah they're a bit smaller than the western world but it's better than cancer and allergy and heart disease.

I know this website is sooooooo bias but it's got alot of info
Milk sucks

When you're about 6 you have a fully developed human (not adult) body and you're no longer a baby. I would say it's easier to give a kid under that age meat rather than faffing about trying to give them a million different vegetables. It's a good start in life...

Nah, it's not heated in here - just a minor difference of opinions. It is difficult to get across tone online ... although one of the ways of showing anger is by using short sentences of short words, in ALL CAPITALS. ;D Hence you appearing angry when you didn't mean to.

It's too much trouble to give them veggies to make up for meat before they're six, even though they'd need very little meat, but it's easy to give them veggies and other sources of calcium after they're 6, when they need tons of calcium? I don't get it.

6 year olds don't have a fully-developed body. ???

Thanks for the web link, even if it is biased (I have no problem with biased sites, myself, as long as the bias is upfront and the data is checkable :)).

Twirly Femme - I'd never say people without children shouldn't post in here; there have been tons of interesting posts from people who don't have kids. :) It was a genuine question.

As a non-parent you will have a very different perspective to parents, and yes, there are some aspects of it you won't understand, just as there are some aspects outside my experience that I can, by definition, not understand however much I'd like to. It is very different from the inside.

Doesn't mean that I think you, or anyone else, should stop posting in here.

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Re: Pregnancy and Vegetarianism
« Reply #44 on: Apr 01, 2007, 08:25:54 PM »
I'm all for vegetarian diets for babies and children, but only if done correctly. And surely you can only do that by setting a good example.

The family I used to nanny for asked when I started the job if I could encourage as much fruit as possible. 3months later and fed of offering tasty fruity concoctions, only to be refuse point blank, the Mum mentionned she never ate fruit herself!

The family across the road were vegetarian and to be honest both children looked so weak and constantly ill I do wonder at some parents methods. We had them over for dinner a few times and was told they would only eat pasta and cheese. I know this can be completely random but I'm pretty sure the baby wasn't able to walk til 22mths due to a lack of nutrients. Calcium from cheese is only effective when combined with vitamin c and they definately had none of that!