Author Topic: The new and improved Dungeon FAQs  (Read 41380 times)

Melpomene

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #30 on: Oct 13, 2005, 10:16:27 PM »
Viewing a safe word as failure? Surely it's better to be honest than withhold a safe word when you genuinely should say it.

Safe words shouldn't have shame attached to them - it's a means of communication, and saying that you won't ever start another scene with someone if they use a safe word alters the whole meaning/function of it . Coercion within scenes but not outside!

babytop

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #31 on: Oct 13, 2005, 11:20:20 PM »
One of the problems with the interweb is that you canít see when people are foaming at the mouthÖalthough it does sometimes work to my advantage.  


Top
xxx

dragonfly

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #32 on: Oct 14, 2005, 01:42:39 AM »
I warn them that if they do it I would probably never start another scene with them in the future.

Now, I'm really hoping that because this is the interweb I'm not getting the suble nuances of how this works because you have missed something out or simply haven't explained fully, and that the time delay between postings means that things aren't clarified as quickly as they would be over a cuppa in my kitchen...

*passes Top a tissue*

Offline jad

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #33 on: Oct 14, 2005, 08:20:43 AM »
I warn them that if they do it I would probably never start another scene with them in the future.


FFS  ::)


Top
xxx

Agreed! (and with similar foaming at the mouth)

However, sadly i don't think Elixer's view is as uncommon as we'd all like it to be :(


Elixer,

Of all the things you said the thing that struck me as the most helpful is that you warn subs you might not scene with them again if they use the Stop safeword... i consider this as the most helpful, because this is the chance for your subs to tell you exactly where to stick your rule!

To any novice subs reading*: When someone tells you something like that, that's the moment for you to call Stop and get the hell out of there!


Safewords are there for a reason, (that being to make you feel safe!) you only call stop because you need to stop, and even when playing without a formal safeword, a good Top should understand a 'real' cry for stop of play, and having abided by it should be prepared to offer any after care you need to get past whatever it was that caused you to need to stop, whether that's because your limits have been reached or some other shit has come up that you couldn't handle. They certainly shouldn't be threatening not to play if you safeword! Likewise be very wary of someone that gives you a safeword (like Elixer's slowdown) that they don't agree to actually abide by. It's absolutely no use at all if the Top doesn't have to obey it.

* Or in fact anyone else i guess!
i'm speaking from experience, i didn't get out when i was given a similar rule, i realised later i should have challanged it, or backed away.
« Last Edit: Oct 14, 2005, 09:05:50 AM by jad »

Elixer

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #34 on: Oct 14, 2005, 12:28:43 PM »
 I think there have been some very valid points made here and I donít think they conflict with what I have posted. A lot of the advice given is what I may have advised someone myself however I can see how what I have said may have been misconstrued and perhaps I should take this dungeon board more seriously than other boards rather than posting spur of the moment, as the Dungeoners seem to be very exacting. Iíve been criticised for taking it all too seriously by using safe words, but then criticised for warning a sub against using safe words too often. The reason I warned that I would not play with them again if they said the word for Stop was because they were new to SM and did not understand how it was meant to be used e.g. only when really needed. When I started playing with them, they would say the word for stop the instant that they became nervous instead of communicating anything else, hence I introduced the Slow down word. I posted that I had warned that I would not do another scene with them again, because we had tried a few times, and I had asked them about their reasons for wanting to stop and I wasnít convinced that they wanted to engage in SM at that time. After introducing the Slow down word, and emphasising that Stop was more final, we have had many scenes together that have worked well. Now they see another  Dom too and have kept the safe words I used, as it works for them. Isnt that what this is all about? Sharing experiences, and learning what works from each other? Instead of criticising what others have posted on the board, why not ask for clarification. Iíve just started posting on here, but if you disagree with Me then why not offer advice rather than flame Me. I only ever offer any comments as my own opinion but I am amazed at what a harsh reception my post has received. I think it has generated a lot of discussion about safe words though, and that is a bonus.

switchtwain

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #35 on: Oct 14, 2005, 12:59:57 PM »
Quote
Instead of criticising what others have posted on the board, why not ask for clarification. Iíve just started posting on here, but if you disagree with Me then why not offer advice rather than flame Me. I only ever offer any comments as my own opinion but I am amazed at what a harsh reception my post has received.

I think the reception is due to - as you noted - the nature of the Dungeon.  It's a bit more exacting than, say, Whatever You Fancy because we're involved in potentially physically and mentally damaging practices.  

In order for those practices to be SSC, we need our safety valves.

I think issue was taken because of the delicate nature of safewording.  It generally takes a more experienced player to be really comfortable with safewording - ie that it's not failure, not weakness, etc.

And - contentious issue here - it's particularly delicate because more often than not the safeworder will be the bottom.  The bottom (generally) runs a higher risk of (immediate) harm than the Top... to go into that position requires trust and communication.  

And especially the confidence that they can assert their own limits without penalty or derision.

Limiting the communication of someone with a submissive streak could easily set them back from that confidence and play-certainty that any player deserves.

Having a Top put out an ultimatum because of safewording can be a bit scary... and if newcomers on here read that they might get the wrong idea.

I'm slightly experienced (novice-intermediate) and not 100% happy with safewording myself - I have definite issues around it.  

If this was a specific playmate you were referring to, and not really the norm for you, a bit more clarification (as you rightly pointed out) could have staved off some of the 'harsh' replies, perhaps.  

Sounds like you and the playmate weren't terribly suited to one another?

Elixer

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #36 on: Oct 14, 2005, 01:40:33 PM »
I definitely agree that safe wording is not a failure in any way, and I would not have put it to the sub in that way. It would not be taken as a failure, but in this case the warning was more of an indication not to use safe words lightly. I hope that clears up the confusion. The extra safe word was suggested to Me by a friend, it worked for us and we still see each other occassionally (it worked with her and her other Dom too). I've used these safe words for one other sub that I see. Perhaps its difficult to know the whole situation from one or two posts and that is why I think we should allow each poster flexibility to have their own opinions without flaming them. After this intro to the dungeon, I'm not so sure if Ginger Beer is for Me. I think if we were having this discussion face to face, it would have been clear in minutes what I was trying to say on this board.

It is always going to be the case that different people adapt the rules to their own situations, and I offered what worked for Me, thats all. I guess as far as safe words go, they work for some and not for others.

switchtwain

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #37 on: Oct 14, 2005, 04:05:58 PM »
After this intro to the dungeon, I'm not so sure if Ginger Beer is for Me. I think if we were having this discussion face to face, it would have been clear in minutes what I was trying to say on this board.

It's an inherent drawback of written communication.

Don't write off GB entirely, though, I can assure you the rest is nothing like down here. ;)

Offline jad

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #38 on: Oct 14, 2005, 04:22:54 PM »
Elixer, i apologise if you took my post this morning to be flaming you. i assure you, in terms of dungeon flaming that was an incredibly gentle introduction! ;D

i was simply speaking as a sub that has been given this instruction (ie. safeword and it's all over, you go home and we don't play again), and who has subsequently realised that it was just one of the many ways i was made to feel inferior, and like my own feelings/views were unimportant during my time with that Dominant.

i wouldn't want a newcomer to feel as uncomfortable with the idea of safewording as i did in the beginning (and indeed continued to for a very long time!)

The dungeon is more exacting than other sections, because any bad/unsafe/incorrect advice given here could end up with someone getting hurt. But we're all guilty of poting without the required thought sometimes, and also posting hot-headedly at times, so please don't consider this slight altercation as a reason to give up on GB totally.
« Last Edit: Oct 14, 2005, 05:45:32 PM by jad »

fluffybunnykins

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #39 on: Oct 18, 2005, 12:01:39 PM »

I warn them that if they do it I would probably never start another scene with them in the future.


I knew a butch domme that worked this way. I can't say I completely agreed with it, but I did understand that
a sub is consenting to this way of playing.

people don't agree with breathplay either, doesn't stop me from doing it.

you play, you learn, you fuck up and hopefully you don't make the same mistakes.

playing isn't like taking a wee walk in a nice british woods. it's dangerous, it's extreme sports and one is an adult and decides how they wish to play.

If I decided to jump out of an aeroplane, I may decide to jump out with someone else holding the parachute. Or I may decide to do it myself. as I gain expereince I may try wilder forms of plane jumping.

Some people don't use safe words at all. ever. period. the end.

I personally don't with the rare few. rare.

and some people like riding motorcycles without helmets. if there's an accident, their brain gets smeared. but it's a choice. perhaps a stupid one, but so's doing E. so's drinking to excess and going home with someone from the bar.

If you know the rules of the game being played, you make a choice. The greener you are, the more likely you'll make a mistake. that's the same with anything, so I'd rather keep my helmet on until I've mastered my bike and only take it off on certain roads.

dragonfly

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #40 on: Nov 11, 2005, 12:37:31 PM »
What are your "definitive" books on kink?

What would you recommend to newbies to the scene?


maybebaby

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #41 on: Nov 20, 2005, 08:32:44 PM »
ok,  basic questions for an innocent  ;).  

I would like to see definitions and distinctions between sub/domme, top/bottom.

I like to know whats more common butch or femme tops / bottoms.

<---------- eager to learn

Offline jad

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #42 on: Nov 21, 2005, 04:10:40 PM »
ok,  basic questions for an innocent  ;).  

I would like to see definitions and distinctions between sub/domme, top/bottom.

I like to know whats more common butch or femme tops / bottoms.

<---------- eager to learn

The definition of naming terms is a tricky business, and has in the past led to some wonderful dungeon 'discussions'

At it's most basic, i'd say:

Top/Domme - person in charge
bottom/sub - person not in charge.

And whilst some may disagree, i'd say all Dommes are Tops, but not all Tops are Dommes, and similarly with subs & bottoms.

As for which is more common... don't have a clue i'm afraid! i know a variety of each.

Offline jad

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #43 on: Nov 21, 2005, 04:31:57 PM »
What are your "definitive" books on kink?

What would you recommend to newbies to the scene?



Hmm, i have a bookcase full of books... each of them with thier own snippets of really good and useful stuff in...

i really like screw the Roses, send me the thorns, which whilst hetero in it's outlook, seems to give some very good introductory information.

I've also got most of Jay Wiseman's books, and have found them very useful.

And Dossie Easton's Topping/Bottoming books are good, as is The Ethical Slut.

girlie bird

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Re:The new and improved Dungeon FAQs
« Reply #44 on: Dec 14, 2005, 12:03:03 PM »
bump  :D