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[Woofy Bear]

BDSM
Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sado-Masochism.

[fluffybunnykins]

why do red lentils taste better than green ones? (of course this is while I'm being made to eat them, bound in chain at the bottom of a dank well while people take turns singing dirty songs down to me, just to make it a BDSM question)

[Big Tits Mojo]

being the expert on lentils i have to say that the red taste better 'cos psychologically you associate that colour with raw pasion and the welts you are recieving from the chains...

*sings echoey song of lust down well*

[S.Minotaur]

here's a question.  Who first coined the phrase "safe, sane and consensual" and why?  I've always assumed it was in defence of people's right to do SM, perhaps to convince non-SMers that it wasn't too bad afterall.  Anyone know the history?

[fluffybunnykins]

yeah, and to difrentiate between that and abusive "welcome wagoners" in the BDSM communities...

[fetishkitty]

here's a question.  Who first coined the phrase "safe, sane and consensual" and why?  I've always assumed it was in defence of people's right to do SM, perhaps to convince non-SMers that it wasn't too bad afterall.  Anyone know the history?

I've always liked Laura Antoniou's take on SSC

kitty

[S.Minotaur]

Thanks for the link o'Fetish, I'm going to have to read it at home.  Just skimming through and my, she talks a lot of sense.  here's a quote about SSC -

"All sex should be consenting, yet I've yet to see a dating service advertise as "fun, sexy, and consensual." The trouble is, S/Mers are allowing themselves to be defined by what we're not. We think, "Oh, so many people believe that we're all murderers and rapists, we have to explain why we're not." So a slogan for the gay civil rights movement should be Normal, Nonthreatening, and Not After Your Children?"

And she write some excellent stuff about mis-hits that made me want to stand up in the office and cheer!

I can't wait to read the rest...

[sea]

Question moved into the dark Dungeon FAQ:

hey guys

stupid question, know you probably all heard this before but I want sombody to explain to me about subs and top's- I don't quite understand the concept of being owned by a top/dom, but would like to find out more, or does anyone know of any good websites out there.

[Jenny Talia]

ok.  Iv got some.

Is it safe to play a scene without a safe word?

Be people actually use three safe words (slow down/speed up, less/more) or would you expect a dom to be competent enough to read their sub?

What happens if a scene finishes and it brings up 'stuff' and the sub is upset.

With caning and spanking and soforth, do you know how bruised a person will end up while its taking place.  And does the body adjust and no longer bruise.

Not well written, I know.  Incredibly hungover today.

[Elixer]

ok.  Iv got some.

Is it safe to play a scene without a safe word?

Be people actually use three safe words (slow down/speed up, less/more) or would you expect a dom to be competent enough to read their sub?

What happens if a scene finishes and it brings up 'stuff' and the sub is upset.

With caning and spanking and soforth, do you know how bruised a person will end up while its taking place.  And does the body adjust and no longer bruise.

Not well written, I know.  Incredibly hungover today.

Is it safe to play a scene without a safe word?
No. Whenever basic/main rules are reduced, then boundaries get confused and knock-on effects mean that injuries are more likely.
I speak from experience.. I tried this for the first time 2 weeks ago. I thought the usual rules weren't needed as it was a spur-of-the-moment, quick, simple whipping on the butt.. result.. an unplanned blood nose when the sub jumped.

Be people actually use three safe words (slow down/speed up, less/more) or would you expect a dom to be competent enough to read their sub?
In my opinion, even with an experienced Dom it pays to have 3 words - used for Stop, Time-out, and Slow down (although I only contractually agree to act on the first two as safe words). I guess some could use a fourth - speed up, although I don't always give this option and it has never been said to Me.
I enjoy timing it so that I know exactly when a sub/bottom is going to use a safe word and I think it adds to the enjoyment of the scene when I watch someone struggle with their own limits against using a safe word. I never play without safe words, it is part of being a competent Dom.

What happens if a scene finishes and it brings up 'stuff' and the sub is upset.
I believe this can happen which is why you need after care. If the people involved know what they are doing, then 'stuff' that is brought up should be a release of tension, and not something too upsetting but more cathartic.

With caning and spanking and soforth, do you know how bruised a person will end up while its taking place.  And does the body adjust and no longer bruise.
Each person is different, however with experience you can usually tell by the skin type how easily it will bruise.

[fetishkitty]

Is it safe to play a scene without a safe word?
No. Whenever basic/main rules are reduced, then boundaries get confused and knock-on effects mean that injuries are more likely.
I speak from experience.. I tried this for the first time 2 weeks ago. I thought the usual rules weren't needed as it was a spur-of-the-moment, quick, simple whipping on the butt.. result.. an unplanned blood nose when the sub jumped.

But how would a safeword have prevented this from happening?  Accidents happen...all the time...often less so during SM scenes, as people are aware of the dangers.  You don't need a safeword in this situation - the bottom couldn't have known she was going to 'jump', and you certainly don't need a safeword after the event, who wants to play with a bloody nose?  (Actually...I know some people, but let's not go there... )


I have played, as both a top and a bottom, without safewords, I have never injured anybody, nor have I been injured.  I have written at length about safewords on here before, and would recommend them for new players, new partners and when doing psychological DS.  My personal preference is not to use them in SM scenes, but to use a 'Time Out' to inform of something wrong (eg. hands going numb, cramp in leg etc).  But a safeword that means 'stop play, I'm having a hard time'?  Not for me...if I'm bottoming, I expect someone to be able to read my reactions and make some effort to understand me (hence the proviso of new partners)...if I'm topping, then I expect to do the same back.

Obviously, if someone wants to use a safeword, I wouldn't say no...and I would never say that this type of play is for everyone.  It's a personal opinion/choice.

Be people actually use three safe words (slow down/speed up, less/more) or would you expect a dom to be competent enough to read their sub?
In my opinion, even with an experienced Dom it pays to have 3 words - used for Stop, Time-out, and Slow down (although I only contractually agree to act on the first two as safe words). I guess some could use a fourth - speed up, although I don't always give this option and it has never been said to Me.
I enjoy timing it so that I know exactly when a sub/bottom is going to use a safe word and I think it adds to the enjoyment of the scene when I watch someone struggle with their own limits against using a safe word. I never play without safe words, it is part of being a competent Dom.

OK...here I really take issue with you - if you hand over control to a top, then you do just that: hand over control.  If I was topping someone and they used a safeword to say 'slow down', then I wouldn't like it one little bit.  It's my job as the top to decide pace etc...I do this by reading body language, breathing etc...not by being told what to do.  I'm a competent top (I prefer this term to dom)...and the people I play with trust me to know what I am doing.  If they didn't, and wanted a whole slew of safewords to cover every eventuality, then I wouldn't play with them.

SM isn't always supposed to be safe...it isn't always supposed to be controlled...it's supposed to be hot and sexy and one wild ride.  Obviously, there are basic levels of safety to be adhered to (I don't have a back garden to dig graves in, so I tend to be careful not to kill anyone!), but it is possible to let the 'safety' aspects outweigh the fun ones...not a good move in my book.

kitty

[Melpomene]

Hmm. Interesting!

Personally I think a scene can be safe without a safe word, and also that a scene can be UNSAFE with a safe word. They're useful, but not something to be relied on. Having a safe word is not some kind of golden thing that will ensure everything goes well. Communication is more that thing.

As for having three safe words to indicate stop, time out, slow down - I'm not sure. I don't think someone has to have these available to be a competent top. However, I think handing over control and the use of these words are slightly different things. Tops may read bodies but it's sometimes only possible to do it up to a certain point. You are handing over control but isn't communication to make the scene work better a good thing? If someone is feeling something (such as this really is too much for me) and it carries on and on (i.e. not being read) surely it's better to have a mechanism to say something rather than something happening which may be regretable? I am sure there are times it's impossible to read me.

[Elixer]

But how would a safeword have prevented this from happening?  Accidents happen...all the time...often less so during SM scenes, as people are aware of the dangers.  You don't need a safeword in this situation - the bottom couldn't have known she was going to 'jump', and you certainly don't need a safeword after the event, who wants to play with a bloody nose?  (Actually...I know some people, but let's not go there... )


I have played, as both a top and a bottom, without safewords, I have never injured anybody, nor have I been injured.  I have written at length about safewords on here before, and would recommend them for new players, new partners and when doing psychological DS.  My personal preference is not to use them in SM scenes, but to use a 'Time Out' to inform of something wrong (eg. hands going numb, cramp in leg etc).  

I agree that accidents can happen at any time, but in this case the blood nose was a knock-on effect from a general relaxing the rules as we thought it was a very simple scene. I notice that you say that when doing psychological DS you would recommend safe words, well this is one of my main forms of DS and perhaps that is why I never play without safe words.. in Mind Fuckery scenes I have seen people I know well act very differently to the way they would usually react in a more general situation.
I have played in other scenes where I have given a person a blood nose as part of a scene – I guess you could call that a type of injury, but even with the same amount of pain involved, I see it as a very different situation.
So having said that, I agree that accidents rarely happen in DS and after years of play this is the first time an accident – even a small one – has occurred.

OK...here I really take issue with you - if you hand over control to a top, then you do just that: hand over control.  If I was topping someone and they used a safeword to say 'slow down', then I wouldn't like it one little bit.  It's my job as the top to decide pace etc...I do this by reading body language, breathing etc...not by being told what to do.  I'm a competent top (I prefer this term to dom)...and the people I play with trust me to know what I am doing.  If they didn't, and wanted a whole slew of safewords to cover every eventuality, then I wouldn't play with them.

SM isn't always supposed to be safe...it isn't always supposed to be controlled...it's supposed to be hot and sexy and one wild ride.  Obviously, there are basic levels of safety to be adhered to (I don't have a back garden to dig graves in, so I tend to be careful not to kill anyone!), but it is possible to let the 'safety' aspects outweigh the fun ones...not a good move in my book.

kitty

Yes taking control is taking control. Absolutely. There are some basic agreements before the scene – such as safe words, but once in the scene everything else is controlled by Me. Perhaps I should have mentioned that these safe words are hardly ever used – they are certainly not used every scene. I control aspects of the persons position, timing, actions, type of pain/endurance/humiliation etc. etc. I use safe words because I am a Sadist and I enjoy pushing a person to their pain limits – and then pushing them further. Not many people would agree to such sadistic scenes without safe words, and I wouldn’t want to do these scenes without it. I use a lot of pain and mind fuckery and edge play, and so I use safe words. I previously only had Time out and Stop. I added the Slow down option later because I detest a sub saying the word for Stop and I warn them that if they do it I would probably never start another scene with them in the future. So I guess I decided to introduce Slow down instead, for My own reasons (as a way of incorporating interaction that may be out of scene), and even then I decide if I will slow down or continue on (or speed up !). The only thing I will always follow is the Stop rule and Time out. Any other words are indicators to give the sub another way of communicating, however I decide if I alter what I am doing based on that communication. On occasion, I enjoy inflicting a lot of pain, over a long period of time, in a very Sadistic and impersonal way, with a sub that may be fairly immobilised – in this case the subs reactions can alter dramatically from usual, and I prefer to offer various means of communication.

Kitty perhaps you incorporate the 3 safe words into your ‘Time out’ discussions. One thing I know, the rare use of a safe word does not hamper the sexy fun that I am enjoying when I’ve got a sub in My control.

[babytop]

I warn them that if they do it I would probably never start another scene with them in the future.

FFS  


Top
xxx

[marzipan gnome]

Posted by: Top  Posted on: Today at 08:13:26pm  
Quote from: Elixer on Today at 06:44:21pm
I warn them that if they do it I would probably never start another scene with them in the future.  
 


FFS  


Top
xxx
 

i didnt swear but i had similar thoughts.