Author Topic: How do we prevent GB message boards from falling foul of hate speech?  (Read 2298 times)

Offline Chewwy

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So it didn't happen then?

Would this be the same as arguing that an immigrant has taken your job?  You didn't meet the person, but they still may have been an immigrant?
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Offline Slantrhyme

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Chewwy, you seem to be trying to nail me to the wall here about something, but Iím not quite sure what.I likened being stuck in prison with a creepy predatory male with being stuck on a crowded bus with some pervert pushing their erection into your back, something that has happened to me and many other women, but in this case the women canít just get off the bus. Iím not sure what youíre trying to read into my posts, or why youíre trying to read something that isnít there, or why you even consider this the most important thing out of the 2000 odd posts on these threads,  but they have been clarified by myself on this thread and the other, so whatever, crack on. Arguing with you about this is not number one on my priority list.   
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Offline Betty Croker

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I'm not sure if she's misreading your original post or just missing the point.

How would you know whether the person pressing their penis in your back identifies as trans or not, Chewwy? It's an internal process.

Some trans woman have penises and beards. Some of them even identify as non-binary some of the time, male some of the time and women some of the time. We're told time and time again that you can't tell someone's gender by looking at them.

She didn't say an immigrant stole her job. She said someone with a penis poked it in her back on public transport, twice. The jumping around with pronouns to describe it was meant to express a distinction without a difference. That's how I read it.

« Last Edit: Aug 06, 2018, 01:38:58 AM by Betty Croker »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Betty Croker

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And Betty - of course the online death threats/contact with employers etc are wrong.  Did you think I was okay with that?


Does it matter whether you are privately ok with it or not? If you don't speak up against it you might as well be all for it.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Kirin

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Are you saying that since we can't tell if someone with a penis is a man or a trans woman, it follows that every predator is possibly a trans woman and every trans woman is possibly a predator? Isn't this like saying the huge majority of emigrants are fine but there's a few possible terrorists and criminals in there and we can't tell which is which so we can't risk them being in our space? People argued in favour of section 28 saying they didn't care what gays got up to in theory but it safeguarded against paedophiles having a free rein to prey on children.
I don't have a problem sharing spaces with trans women, I probably have already and never noticed because I've never had a 'lady dick' waved in my face. I don't know how often this happens. I don't know anyone who's been called anti-trans because they turned down a trans woman in a bar. I don't know how widespread this problem is. I've been called racist after turning down an Asian woman, but don't consider myself racist and just laughed it off. I have experienced harrassment and assault if that has any bearing on this.

Obviously I'm against sharing women's spaces with predators, either men or trans women, but I can't bring myself to campaign against an entire group of people (trans) because any rights given to them might be exploited by psycho predators who may be trans women or may be men. There are psychos within every strata of society, do we use them as a guideline to decide how to treat whole groups of people? Maybe time will prove that I'm on the wrong side.

Offline Betty Croker

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Are you saying that since we can't tell if someone with a penis is a man or a trans woman, it follows that every predator is possibly a trans woman and every trans woman is possibly a predator? Isn't this like saying the huge majority of emigrants are fine but there's a few possible terrorists and criminals in there and we can't tell which is which so we can't risk them being in our space? People argued in favour of section 28 saying they didn't care what gays got up to in theory but it safeguarded against paedophiles having a free rein to prey on children.
I don't have a problem sharing spaces with trans women, I probably have already and never noticed because I've never had a 'lady dick' waved in my face. I don't know how often this happens. I don't know anyone who's been called anti-trans because they turned down a trans woman in a bar. I don't know how widespread this problem is. I've been called racist after turning down an Asian woman, but don't consider myself racist and just laughed it off. I have experienced harrassment and assault if that has any bearing on this.

Obviously I'm against sharing women's spaces with predators, either men or trans women, but I can't bring myself to campaign against an entire group of people (trans) because any rights given to them might be exploited by psycho predators who may be trans women or may be men. There are psychos within every strata of society, do we use them as a guideline to decide how to treat whole groups of people? Maybe time will prove that I'm on the wrong side.

Section 28 was about prohibiting positive references to homosexuality in education. It didn't put any woman in a prison cell with a prisoner with a penis.

There was no evidence whatsoever that paedophiles were more likely to be gay or immigrants more likely to be criminals or terrorists. There's a mountain of evidence that male bodied people commit sexual and violent assault against women. However they identify in their heads.

« Last Edit: Aug 06, 2018, 10:27:16 AM by Betty Croker »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Slantrhyme

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 Iím interested to know how many women and girls have to be attacked by psychos and predators, or missing out on sporting accolades  it would take for trans allies to think itís a bad idea to allow male bodied people into womensí spaces and sport?
 Weíve already had women harassed, intimidated, and touched against their will in prisons and homeless shelters, schoolgirls being masturbated at in the showers after PE, girls and women missing out on sports medals that theyíve trained long and hard for because they have no chance against a male,   and a very prominent trans-activist has been revealed to have posted pictures of themselves flashing their penis in public on an Internet blog, along with posting pictures of child rape. How many women are you prepared to take as collateral damage so male bodied people can have what they want?     
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Offline Wolfgang

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Some trans woman have penises and beards.

So they get criticised if they look too conventionally like men and criticised for reinforcing sex stereotypes or mutilating themselves if they look too conventionally like women   Can you sketch out the acceptable margin of existence for them pls?
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Offline Betty Croker

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Some trans woman have penises and beards.

So they get criticised if they look too conventionally like men and criticised for reinforcing sex stereotypes or mutilating themselves if they look too conventionally like women   Can you sketch out the acceptable margin of existence for them pls?

Itís a fact not a criticism or a call for ostracism. A fact pointed out to Chewy to contradict the idea that if you get an unwanted boner in the back on public transport, you can make a call as to the gender the person responsible for it identifies as.

Are you saying itís not a true fact?
« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2018, 01:16:41 AM by Betty Croker »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Chewwy

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No, I read Slantrhyme's example as something that had actually happened to her. 

Then when I laughed, saying this hadn't happened to me or anyone I know (transwoman penis in nudging me in the back), you berated me for mocking / casting doubt on this.

Perhaps we should just stick to real situations, that have happened to us.  Not notional ones. 

And then you bring up 'death threats', which I mentioned I'm not okay with, and I STILL get it in the neck. 

What the f*ck is going on here???
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Offline Betty Croker

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What part of ďit did happen to herĒ donít you understand? The self identified gender of the person who did it is not possible to discern. She made that point. You keep missing it and describing her experience as fictional. Which it isnít.

The fact that you feel moved to complain about people supposedly gloating but havenít  said a peep about the death threats or the threats to report people to their employers until asked directly about it  puts your points in true perspective.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Chewwy

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But not by a transwoman?
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Offline Betty Croker

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But not by a transwoman?

Transwoman is an internal self identification. It doesnít depend on looks.How would you know how that person identified? Thatís the point that you keep missing.

She has said time and time again that it makes no difference to her how the owner of the boner identifies and there is no way of telling the difference. What she cares about is keeping male bodied people out of womens spaces however they internally identify. Because safety for women is her priority.
« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2018, 02:13:56 AM by Betty Croker »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Wolfgang

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Some trans woman have penises and beards.

So they get criticised if they look too conventionally like men and criticised for reinforcing sex stereotypes or mutilating themselves if they look too conventionally like women   Can you sketch out the acceptable margin of existence for them pls?

Itís a fact not a criticism or a call for ostracism. A fact pointed out to Chewy to contradict the idea that if you get an unwanted boner in the back on public transport, you can make a call as to the gender the person responsible for it identifies as.

Are you saying itís not a true fact?

It is a true fact and it's also used to present them as encroaching p1ss takers.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong that transwomen aren't shouting at me to suck their balls. - Hhayt

Offline Betty Croker

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Some trans woman have penises and beards.

So they get criticised if they look too conventionally like men and criticised for reinforcing sex stereotypes or mutilating themselves if they look too conventionally like women   Can you sketch out the acceptable margin of existence for them pls?

Itís a fact not a criticism or a call for ostracism. A fact pointed out to Chewy to contradict the idea that if you get an unwanted boner in the back on public transport, you can make a call as to the gender the person responsible for it identifies as.

Are you saying itís not a true fact?

It is a true fact and it's also used to present them as encroaching p1ss takers.

Mostly by other trans women. And not helped by the pomposity of Alex Drummond's claim to be "widening the bandwith of how to be a woman." We've had a few daft, over-stretched comparisons to how wanting safe spaces for women is like racism well, imagine how African Americans might react to ethnically white "transblack" woman Rachel Dolezal claiming "I'm just widening the bandwith of how to be black". Would they be accused of being a "hate group" for failing to move over in their own spaces and rename themselves "Cis black" ? Or would their incredulity be met with total empathy? I think we both know its the latter.

From our early teens to the grave, our patriarchial society, has young girls and women pouring over themselves with shame and self loathing to eradicate all body hair. If only the people who spent their lives on internet crusades for bearded trans women were giving a fraction of their time and energy to change that culture for all women. If only.
« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2018, 08:20:15 AM by Betty Croker »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......