Author Topic: Can animals be b*stards?  (Read 610 times)

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #15 on: Jun 15, 2018, 02:28:54 AM »
But would everyone pull their missus out first even if, like my missus, their reproductive capabilities were a little past their best before date? Do the genuine positive feelings that one tends to have towards a lover override the genes we have in commos relatives most of us despise?

(Iíd save my dog over most humans, particularly the ones Iím related to).
In practice, Chapter 6 says "I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that," because the behaviour these genes code for has become a bit diffused.

Sophocles's Antigone says she'd save her sibling over her (hypothetical) child because her parents are dead and thus unable to manufacture more siblings for her.  But sheís Oedipus and Jocasta's daughter so it's quite a bit more complicated than that.
« Last Edit: Jun 15, 2018, 10:45:01 AM by Wolfgang »
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Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #16 on: Jun 15, 2018, 02:33:06 AM »
In another they are chasing seals to eat, but instead of just catching them and eating them they spend a few minutes tossing the poor, still alive,  creatures into the air and catching them, apparently just for fun.
But do they realise they are being cruel? Or are we just imposing our interpretation on it?
Exactly this sort of thing.  *ponders*


ETA actually is Feeling Sorrier For Animals Than For Humans a related phenomenon, somehow?   Ι usually have to try deliberately if I want to feel sorry for people suffering.  Whereas Ι have to try very hard not to feel painfully sorry for animals suffering.  Babies are middle ground but probably once they start talking they start to lose me.
« Last Edit: Jun 15, 2018, 03:07:40 AM by Wolfgang »
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Offline Chewwy

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #17 on: Jun 15, 2018, 06:06:23 AM »
I think animals (well our pets) feel love, but unsure they feel empathy.  But a lot of youtube shows differently.
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Offline mint

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #18 on: Jun 15, 2018, 11:49:45 AM »
omg iv seen that killer whale thing. it really disturbed me. there was one about dolphins too... horrible.

Online Oso

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 15, 2018, 02:45:03 PM »
Once my cute little feline killing machine left me a pair of pigeon wings on the doorstep as what I assume was a present, still not sure if it was a death threat, & I remember thinking, you evil, twisted little bastard. Later that day I went to Nandoís & stuffed my face with chicken. Is there really any difference? At least the cat shared hers!

Most wild & domestic animals excel at being bastards but itís not a conscious effort. Unlike when a human decides to dedicate their lives to the art of bastardness.


Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #20 on: Jun 15, 2018, 06:43:59 PM »
Do you really think humans *decide* this?  I see a more elaborate form of helplessness.  Isn't free will a myth?
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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #21 on: Jun 15, 2018, 07:26:05 PM »
^ Thatís a very interesting question that opens up an entirely different debate!

Offline hellohowareyoutoday

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #22 on: Jun 15, 2018, 07:42:53 PM »
I think humans may not be the only bastards, but their potential to do damage and cause suffering is greater - similar to how a chihuahua may be a much more villainous creature than a pitbull, but can't really harness those intentions in too deadly of a way.

Offline Madge Hooks

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #23 on: Jun 15, 2018, 08:11:35 PM »
Rather than comparing inter species morality, is there any animal other than humans known to organise themselves according to some kind of belief system? Probably not so much attending chihuahua church, but frowning upon stealing, extra marital affairs, etc. Basically social punishment of ďbadĒ behaviour. Iím sure there is. So the way for an animal to definitely be less of a bstard is to look down its nose at others while keeping its powder dry.

Animals are driven by instinct, so I donít think that can that be deemed as unacceptable. But then, classifying humans as animals if I follow this route that would conclude murder shouldnít really be punishable since humansí greatest threat is other humans.

So, is it soul? If you donít believe animals have souls, then they are not capable of bstardry, while humans are uniquely special soul-bearing creatures who are capable of cruelty in no uncertain terms.

Offline millicent

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #24 on: Jun 15, 2018, 08:20:31 PM »
I'm pretty sure bobobos feel empathy.

(My old cat could be a total cow.
She used to regularly just walk up to me and ladder my tights.
Apropos of nothing.
And then she'd walk off again.)
« Last Edit: Jun 15, 2018, 08:23:10 PM by millicent »
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Offline Top

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #25 on: Jun 15, 2018, 08:25:11 PM »
Unlike when a human decides to dedicate their lives to the art of bastardness.

Iím not convinced that humans do that either. Humans tend to have three levels of denial, it wasnít actually that bad, it was a bit bad but totally justified, it was bad but Iím generally a lovely person. Itís really rare for anyone to think that theyíre a bad person.
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Offline hellohowareyoutoday

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #26 on: Jun 15, 2018, 08:55:56 PM »
Rather than comparing inter species morality, is there any animal other than humans known to organise themselves according to some kind of belief system? Probably not so much attending chihuahua church, but frowning upon stealing, extra marital affairs, etc. Basically social punishment of ďbadĒ behaviour. Iím sure there is. So the way for an animal to definitely be less of a bstard is to look down its nose at others while keeping its powder dry.

Animals are driven by instinct, so I donít think that can that be deemed as unacceptable. But then, classifying humans as animals if I follow this route that would conclude murder shouldnít really be punishable since humansí greatest threat is other humans.

So, is it soul? If you donít believe animals have souls, then they are not capable of bstardry, while humans are uniquely special soul-bearing creatures who are capable of cruelty in no uncertain terms.

That's it, you have made light of my religion. I may pray to tiny God Yap-A-Lot McShivers, but I do not deserve the vitriol. I am out of this thread. Goodbye.

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #27 on: Jun 15, 2018, 09:02:46 PM »
Unlike when a human decides to dedicate their lives to the art of bastardness.

Iím not convinced that humans do that either. Humans tend to have three levels of denial, it wasnít actually that bad, it was a bit bad but totally justified, it was bad but Iím generally a lovely person. Itís really rare for anyone to think that theyíre a bad person.
Yes, exactly.
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Offline Madge Hooks

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #28 on: Jun 15, 2018, 09:15:26 PM »
Rather than comparing inter species morality, is there any animal other than humans known to organise themselves according to some kind of belief system? Probably not so much attending chihuahua church, but frowning upon stealing, extra marital affairs, etc. Basically social punishment of ďbadĒ behaviour. Iím sure there is. So the way for an animal to definitely be less of a bstard is to look down its nose at others while keeping its powder dry.

Animals are driven by instinct, so I donít think that can that be deemed as unacceptable. But then, classifying humans as animals if I follow this route that would conclude murder shouldnít really be punishable since humansí greatest threat is other humans.

So, is it soul? If you donít believe animals have souls, then they are not capable of bstardry, while humans are uniquely special soul-bearing creatures who are capable of cruelty in no uncertain terms.

That's it, you have made light of my religion. I may pray to tiny God Yap-A-Lot McShivers, but I do not deserve the vitriol. I am out of this thread. Goodbye.

I thought chihuahua church sounded cute  :'(


Offline Aline

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Re: Can animals be b*stards?
« Reply #29 on: Jun 15, 2018, 09:53:37 PM »
I am giving up having cats when my 16 year old finally snuffs it. She's still killing things, though not with the monotonous regularity she once did. The first time I ever saw a bullfinch close up was when it was lying dead on the doorstep. Thanks Minnie!

But she's not a bastard. In a way I find her instincts to stalk and pounce quite fascinating to watch. It's all just so normal for her. So I don't judge. I just get very cross.