Author Topic: Women's safety in prisons.  (Read 3034 times)

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #30 on: Jun 04, 2018, 04:12:44 PM »
Gender dysphoria is like every other body dysphoria, it is a perception that the body is wrong, not a fact. We donít treat anorexia by saying, yeah actually, you are fat, loose some more weight, hereís a packet of diet pills and a referral for liposuction, yet we treat gender dysphoria by harmful drugs and the removal of healthy body parts, and creating a legal fiction to give truth to that lie.
Because it often does help.  We understand very little about gender dysphoria and very little about anorexia.  You can't use one to draw conclusions about the other. 
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong that transwomen aren't shouting at me to suck their balls. - Hhayt

hellohowareyoutoday

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #31 on: Jun 04, 2018, 04:30:39 PM »
The parallel drawn between anorexia and gender dysphoria doesn't really work. In the case of anorexia, there is some element of inaccurate perception (seeing your body in a way that isn't accurate), whereas people wanting to transition don't see anything untrue necessarily when they look in the mirror; they might just feel a disconnect with what they see. In other words, they recognize they are biologically male/female, are unhappy about it, and want to change it.
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2018, 04:34:56 PM by hellohowareyoutoday »

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #32 on: Jun 04, 2018, 04:52:39 PM »
I was on an all female ward a couple of years ago but most of the staff were men. There was a window in every bedroom door that had slats, and every so often, depending on what level you were on, a member of staff would come and observe you through the window. Getting undressed freaked me out, because I never knew whether there was someone looking in or not. It was like being in a panoptican, with the added indignity of being watched by a man. From what I experienced and witnessed, there was plenty of flirty/creepy/questionable behaviour on display from the male staff and I know Iím not the only patient who felt that way. It was a psychiatric ward so full of vulnerable women, and every time you stepped out of your room there was always the threat of violence and confrontation in the air. It would have been dreadful if there were male patients as well, because I saw more than one fight kick off, and the thought of having a man randomly start on me is terrifying. My friend was over on the mixed intensive ward at Littlemore and she pretty much described that situation, plus the loss of privacy and dignity of having men around the place. Patience ob psychiatric wards tend to be a bit hazy around personal Boundries, so I hope I never end up locked up in a mixed ward, because once you get in, even if you are informal, they wonít let you out, and they put you on a section if you ask to leave, which is what happened to me when I wanted to go home, because that place was making me worse, not better.   
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Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #33 on: Jun 04, 2018, 05:07:19 PM »
Gender dysphoria is like every other body dysphoria, it is a perception that the body is wrong, not a fact. We donít treat anorexia by saying, yeah actually, you are fat, loose some more weight, hereís a packet of diet pills and a referral for liposuction, yet we treat gender dysphoria by harmful drugs and the removal of healthy body parts, and creating a legal fiction to give truth to that lie.
Because it often does help.  We understand very little about gender dysphoria and very little about anorexia.  You can't use one to draw conclusions about the other.

 You can though, because anorexic people are not too fat and nobody is born into the wrong body.
 I was convinced, absolutely convinced, that my neighbours were trying to kill me. I couldíve given you a whole list of reasons, the birds were telling me, the actual building was telling me, I made all sorts of connections that were absolutely clear and obvious to me. Despite the fact that there was absolutely no concrete evidence to support my assertions  I was absolutely convinced.
 Were my neighbours trying to kill me? 
Where is the evidence to suggest anyone is born into the wrong body?     
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2018, 05:11:06 PM by Slantrhyme »
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Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #34 on: Jun 04, 2018, 05:38:37 PM »
It usually starts a lot earlier than anorexia, for starters, and for no apparent reason.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong that transwomen aren't shouting at me to suck their balls. - Hhayt

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #35 on: Jun 04, 2018, 06:02:06 PM »
 Do you know that there is no apparent reason?
 There is no apparent reason for my psychiatric illness but I still have it, so there must be a reason. There is speculation as to the cause but nobody has been able to nail it down yet.
 Iím not suggesting gender dysphoria doesnít exist, because it clearly does, itís in the DSM, because itís a psychiatric illness. So how do you get from that to people being born into the wrong body? Where is your evidence that anybody is born into the wrong body?
 For which other psychiatric illness do we advocate complete affirmation to the point of creating a legal fiction?
For which other psychiatric illness do we advocate a lifetime of cross sex hormones and mutilation of a healthy body?
For which other psychiatric illness do we advocate sterilising children and leaving them with no sexual function as adults,, potential cognitive impairment,  increased risk of diabetes, osteoporosis and various types of cancer?
Which other psychiatric illness is being used as an excuse to open the door to any man who wishes to get access to vulnerable women and girls in single sex spaces?   
   
the summer is ended and we are not yet saved

hellohowareyoutoday

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #36 on: Jun 04, 2018, 06:22:59 PM »
Is your new arguing technique to just ask endless questions, Slatnrhyme?
Where did you learn this strategy, Slantrhyme?
How long will it continue for?
Do you have evidence for how effective it is?
Are these questions rhetorical?
Why are you asking so many questions?


Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #37 on: Jun 04, 2018, 06:26:18 PM »
Homosexuality was in the DSM.  Psychiatry is not a reliable science.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong that transwomen aren't shouting at me to suck their balls. - Hhayt

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #38 on: Jun 04, 2018, 06:55:24 PM »
Hhayt
1. No 
2. I have no idea, but it obviously works because you havenít provided any answers yet
 3. Until you provide some answers
4. Itís very effective because it shows that my opponent has no answers, just strawman and bluster
5. No
6.  Refer to answer number two

Wolfe,  homosexuality does not require any drug treatment or surgical intervention because we donít want it, we are not asking for any, and being homosexual does not affect anybody else.       
the summer is ended and we are not yet saved

hellohowareyoutoday

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #39 on: Jun 04, 2018, 07:24:16 PM »
Can you list three instances of times when I didn't provide answers?
Was it maybe that I did provide answers, but you didn't find them satisfactory?
Are my answers not good enough for you?
Do you always have a problem with people modifying their bodies, such as with piercings, tattoos (risk of infection, death)?
What about people harming their bodies by smoking cigarettes?
Should Deaf people be allowed to get cochlear implants, even if it's an invasive and potentially dangerous procedure that permanently alters the body?
Is it our job to police what people do with their bodies?
Do you only mind people modifying their bodies if they are transgender?
Why are you concerned if men want to chop off their penises? Penises have been the enemy in this whole debate; wouldn't fewer penises make you happy?
Can you have it both ways that 1) you don't want transwomen with penises, and simultaneously 2) you object to transwomen cutting off healthy body parts?


Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #40 on: Jun 04, 2018, 08:15:37 PM »
 Well thereís a whole bunch of questions further up thread that you personally havenít answered, so we could start there if you like.
 Regarding tattoos and piercings, of which I have several, they are mine, done to me, but more importantly,  I havenít asked for or donít require any special treatment from anyone else because of them. They are all healed fine so wonít be needing any treatment in the future either, and I didnít undertake them in a deluded belief that I could change sex. People are free to smoke if they wish, as long as they keep it away from other people who donít wish to inhale their smoke. I donít make the tobacco laws unfortunately, so itís not up to me.
 I believe cochlear implants have a proven and measurable positive impact on the hearing of people with *impaired* hearing, although I am not a doctor, and of course this is not comparable or relevant in any way, because Iím not aware of anybody carrying out a cochlear implant on an otherwise healthy ear.
 If we are talking about penises in a women only space then there should be none.
 I donít believe that anybody should be encouraged to mutilate an otherwise healthy Organ in the belief that they can change sex, because they cannot, and itís a lie.
 Right, now Iíve answered all your questions, including your ridiculous strawman, maybe youíd like to answer my questions further up thread, you know, the ones you took such exception to., without attacking more strawmen, telling me Iím hysterical, telling me to shut up, calling me a terf, transphobic or a nazi, and providing evidence for any assertions you make.     
   
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Offline Madge Hooks

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #41 on: Jun 04, 2018, 08:26:01 PM »
We need a tracking spreadsheet with three columns:

A
Slantrhyme Questions

B
Answers

C
Answered to Slantrhymeís Satisfaction
Y/N

hellohowareyoutoday

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #42 on: Jun 04, 2018, 08:27:31 PM »
Don't ask me; Excel makes me very anxious.

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #43 on: Jun 04, 2018, 08:36:20 PM »
 Oh dear, not answering questions again Hhayt?  That answers column is looking pretty empty.
 Youíre beginning to look a bit silly   
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hellohowareyoutoday

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #44 on: Jun 04, 2018, 08:48:00 PM »
Quote
Regarding tattoos and piercings, of which I have several, they are mine, done to me, but more importantly,  I havenít asked for or donít require any special treatment from anyone else because of them. They are all healed fine so wonít be needing any treatment in the future either

Great, but what if they hadn't healed fine? Wouldn't the NHS have had to pay to repair your completely unnecessary body mutilations, and that is indeed impacting other people? I assume you were born biologically free of pictures on your body. Why did you have the deluded belief that to be a more authentic version of yourself, you had to get ink drilled onto your skin, or have holes made (i.e. small bits of flesh removed)? Is it not sending the wrong message to someone that they are able to change the plainness of their skin?  Seems a bit cruel to pretend that anyone can suddenly tattoo a rainbow on their arm and find a pot of gold waiting for them.

I disagree that by having tattoos, you do not ask for special treatment. You might not be asking for accommodations explicity (e.g. "Call me Tattoo Face instead of Slantrhyme"), but you are probably on a subconscious level wanting people to make accommodations and not pass judgment, for example in job interviews. What if your tattoos are offensive to my religious beliefs? When I see your tattoos, I am extending a courtesy to you by accepting your free will and personal decisions and understanding that you have lived a different life and made different choices to me.

 
Quote
Right, now Iíve answered all your questions, including your ridiculous strawman, maybe youíd like to answer my questions further up thread, you know, the ones you took such exception to., without attacking more strawmen, telling me Iím hysterical, telling me to shut up, calling me a terf, transphobic or a nazi, and providing evidence for any assertions you make.     


You genuinely might be confusing me with someone else. I did explain to you how your thinking yesterday was oppressor-logic (when you mentioned different classes of people, such as "Jews"), and I think I did it reasonably well, and without being vicious at all. Don't believe I've used the word 'terf' on GB as it's not part of my daily lingo.