Author Topic: Women's safety in prisons.  (Read 3033 times)

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #15 on: Jun 03, 2018, 06:41:12 PM »
But do posters accept that a trans identity is in theory valid even if in practice you consider it unverifiable?
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong that transwomen aren't shouting at me to suck their balls. - Hhayt

Offline millicent

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #16 on: Jun 03, 2018, 07:14:33 PM »
But pushing back 'political correctness' ie that includes you and I, is what the Daily Mail, do. It's all one agenda to them.

And it's not ours.

Exactly.
This is the same paper that pays Richard Bloody Littlejohn's pay cheque and thinks that same sex couples with kids shouldn't be the new normal and 'children benefit most from being raised by a man and woman'.


'if you take away the cake, the icing is meaningless.'

Offline Sorted.

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #17 on: Jun 03, 2018, 07:42:38 PM »
From the Doctors mouth..

Same sources (freedom of information MOJ, prison reformer and governors)   Just without the Daily Mail bit.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/prison-data-confirmed/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Offline Blythe

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #18 on: Jun 03, 2018, 07:43:39 PM »
And its the same paper that took Julie Bindels story about grooming gangs in Rotherham when no one else was interested.

But forget which paper it is ...


What about the women in prison (most of whom have already suffered sexual abuse in their earlier life) and are now being sexually abused whilst being LOCKED in with sex offenders pretending to be women.
What about that?
What about who is saying its dangerous?
Engage with the bloody subject rather than carping about the paper ... Or don't you care about those women ??
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Offline millicent

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #19 on: Jun 03, 2018, 08:07:36 PM »
Oh, I care.

I just sincerely doubt the Daily Mail does.

Why are they cherry picking this and not mention once the impact of Tory austerity on vulnerable prisoners?

'if you take away the cake, the icing is meaningless.'

Offline Blythe

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #20 on: Jun 03, 2018, 08:17:22 PM »
I expect they put this story in because all the wok was done for them by Fair play for women.  They used the Freedom of Information Act.

Added to that the Mail loves a sex offender story, and they probably know their readers do too.

Im not a Daily Mail reader but I'm glad they've published this stuff.
Maybe more politicians will take notice now.

'Someone take Blythe's mobile phone off her before she says something silly'           kitty

Danny T

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #21 on: Jun 03, 2018, 11:47:08 PM »
Can we try to maintain a distinction between disingenuous predatory (cis) infiltrators and ingenuous but supposedly delusional transwomen in this thread?  Or doesn't it matter?

I'd say transgender is by definition delusional. It works the same way as anorexia works: you perceive your body in a way that is destructive to your mental and physical health.

Autogynephiles are something else.
Gender non-conforming autists are something else again.
And lesbians and gays who cannot face their sexuality are a different thing again.

So if we differentiate, we probably ought to fence off the autogynephiles, as I guess they are the most disingenuous. There will also be heterosexual men who are psychopaths, who use the trans thing to get closer to vulnerable women and girls.

Cis doesn't mean anything.

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #22 on: Jun 04, 2018, 09:46:10 AM »
 Instead of engaging with women, addressing peoplesĎ concerns and having a conversation, the trans lobby have suppressed debate, bullied and threatened anybody who disagrees with them, and accused anyone and everyone who goes against the party line as transphobic. Now they are in the crosshairs of the Daily Mail and Iím past the point where I can be sorry about that. When it comes to hysterical hyperbole, vilification and dirty tricks, letís see how the transcultís crumbly ideology and bullshit generator can stand up to the right-wing press. They started this dirty war, and now I expect theyíre going to get one. Once all this ridiculous self ID nonsense is dragged out into the sunlight itíll collapse quicker than a sandcastle at high tide.     
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Offline mint

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #23 on: Jun 04, 2018, 10:46:38 AM »
What d you think the answer is - how should it be done?

I think there's a very big difference between someone who was born into the wrong body, has lived as a woman for most of their life, has had top and bottom surgery, goes thrugh their everyday life as female than someone who started to transition recently and is doing it for sinister reasons. Of course there will be some genuine people and some who aren't genuine but how on earth do we tell them apart? I don't feel we should be able to tell people how they feel but I'm concerned that self ID can be utterly abused under certain contexts and this is one of them. These women are ultra vulnerable they can't just walk away from the situation, it's just awful. I don't know what the answer is.

Offline Trifle

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #24 on: Jun 04, 2018, 10:50:34 AM »
Iíve just been looking up what Autogynephile is as Iíd never even heard of it. That really is disturbing and I assume itís what the transsexuals who wrote the letter to The Guardian were referring to as the sexual fetishists. That it is thought it have its origins in porn is sickening.

Offline Trifle

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #25 on: Jun 04, 2018, 10:58:13 AM »
I think getting rid of the sex offenders and serious personality disorders out of the womenís prison would be a good start. It makes me so angry to think that itís even been allowed in the first place, itís disgusting behaviour. Male rapists and psychopaths do not have a right to be women.

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #26 on: Jun 04, 2018, 11:43:28 AM »
 Why should women be expected to just walk away from a situation? Why do we have to have those situations to walk away from in the first place? It is not a manís right to access womenís facilities as and when he chooses, the facilities are for women, and there should be no men in them to have to walk away from.
 Nobody is born into the wrong body. Our bodies and brains develop at the same time in the same place from the same egg and sperm. What is this thing that is in the wrong body? Is it a soul? Where does it come from? When does it enter the body? Where is the evidence that it exists?  Gender dysphoria is like every other body dysphoria, it is a perception that the body is wrong, not a fact. We donít treat anorexia by saying, yeah actually, you are fat, loose some more weight, hereís a packet of diet pills and a referral for liposuction, yet we treat gender dysphoria by harmful drugs and the removal of healthy body parts, and creating a legal fiction to give truth to that lie.
 If there is a problem with the safety and wellbeing of transwomen in mensí prisons then make a special wing where they can be kept apart and looked after, or even better, why not make an effort to tackle the male violence that is causing *everyone* so many problems?     
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Offline mint

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #27 on: Jun 04, 2018, 11:53:54 AM »
Women shouldn't be expected to walk away from a situation, but my point is that those women are incredibly vulnerable because their choices have been taken away from them. Whereas if I'm out somewhere and something makes me very uncomfortable, I'm *able*, mostly, to walk away from it, remove myself from the situation, get to a place of safety. I have more rights. Most of the time I have that option. Whereas the women we're talking about here don't have that option available to them at all, they are ultra vulnerable, who they live with is chosen for them. Who they shower with is chosen for them. Who they eat with is chosen for them. *if* they want to walk away from a situation, which they may well want to, that option isn't there for them. So no, they shouldn't be expected to walk away from a situation, but if they so wished to, that option isn't there for them. Which in my view makes it all the worse.

I used to have very different views and opinions on all of this, living in a way in a land of theory. Until you end up seeing, witnessing or experiencing the same thing over and over - the erosion of women's rights at the expense of others. Women's sense o safety being taken from them. Women being told what they should or shouldn't find acceptable. Women being coerced to accept things they do not like otherwise they are called names, acronyms or treated with violence. It's not OK. I think we're most probably on a similar page Slanty in a way, and maybe my choice of phrasing was poor. I just feel women should have the CHOICE to be able to walk away from a situation they're uncomfortable in if they so chose. In this scenario they don't have the choice. They don't have much of a voice either. They shouldn't be put in that situation in the first place. 99% of the time it's always men and it's constant. Someone headbutted my car bonnet on the bank holiday weeknd - a drunk man. Someone approached me in a shop and tried to grab me on Sunday - a man. Someone made threatening comments towards me in a shop - a man. It's not women doing these things.

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #28 on: Jun 04, 2018, 12:11:05 PM »
 Sorry Mint, I didnít make myself clear. I know what you meant, I was just picking up on the idea that women should have to walk away from anything, when we shouldnít be put in that position, let alone be placed in circumstances where we donít even have that option.
 On the wider point, Iím not comfortable with the idea that I should just walk away from a toilet or a changing area or a hospital ward if I donít feel comfortable sharing with a man. Then we get to the point where women actively avoid certain places, places that should be designated for women only, yet women are excluded because they are made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe.  Of course in a prison that is amplified 100 times and there is no option to self exclude, and to put very vulnerable women in that position just to protect the feelings of a man  is indefensible.   
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Offline mint

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Re: Women's safety in prisons.
« Reply #29 on: Jun 04, 2018, 03:53:00 PM »
Yep I agree. It horrifies me to think of some woman trapped in a room she can't leave being forced to share with someone with a penis, to sleep in that space.

No I agree we shouldn't have to walk away from things, those situations shouldn't arise in the first pla e, it sickens me and has done more and more so over the past months. I don't know if it's just me, or whether it's because I've been more active and going into the city centre way more recently, but there have been so many incidents and it's disturbing.

I have been on a mixed hospital ward, it was pretty bad and I felt unsafe. One guy made sexual comments repeatedly.I felt a lot safer when it was an old fashioned nightingale ward, about 10 women, and it was all open. He told me he had watched me get changed etc. I reported him to staff but he wasn't removed. This was a long time ago so maybe things would be handled differently now. I very strongly believe hospital wards should be single sex. It was also why I requested to be moved out of a side room ont the main ward because a male patient came into my room in the night. I know a tonne of other people who have had similar experiences and it's not on that people can't feel safe in a hospital. Yeah some of them may be harmless, the guy who wandered into my room might have been for all I know. But some of them definitely aren't and even hearing those kind of comments is unacceptable. Women should not be put in that position in the first place.