Author Topic: Lesbian Erasure  (Read 4895 times)

Offline Jules™

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2018, 08:38:51 AM »
I really think that when male entitlement/kink meets big profit (and trans has become big business) then reason/login/womens rights are going to go right out of the window.

They don't give a stuff that 2 + 2 = 4.

Offline Chewwy

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2018, 09:28:34 AM »
Havn't seen it at my place. 

We've had special gyno clinics aimed at lesbians, (where only 1 person turned up), free tickets for Flare, WOW festivals (where no-one turned up) and will be holding an exhibition on the women who made the organisation soon. 

As for the LGBT groups which there are many, I have no idea.  But they're all currently overseen by a lesbian, so I doubt it.

Jeez, chewie


You've well drunk the kool aid if you can't see that the reason no lesbians are rocking up at events is because its all pretend lesbians running the orgs.
If I came out now ..How would I find lesbians and avoid creepy men who say they are.lesbians ??

WTF?
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Offline Betty Croker

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2018, 09:33:29 AM »
What sort of job do you do, Chewwy?

I'm amazed if I can get free post it notes personally never mind specialist gynecologist sessions for lesbians.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2018, 09:43:28 AM »
Whenever I’ve been to see lesbian comedians the audience has been mostly lesbian. At one show there was only one man in the theatre. The only mainstream lesbian comedian I’ve ever been to see is Susan Calman, and the whole way through she kept doing gags about the wife. I felt like I’d timewarped back to the 1970s. It was about four years ago so she might have changed her act since, but I thought she’d sold out and I wasn’t impressed. 
the summer is ended and we are not yet saved

Offline Chewwy

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2018, 09:45:39 AM »
What sort of job do you do, Chewwy?

I'm amazed if I can get free post it notes personally never mind specialist gynecologist sessions for lesbians.

I'm part of the Comms' team for a London based LGBT / sexual health org.
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Offline Betty Croker

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2018, 10:01:08 AM »
What sort of job do you do, Chewwy?

I'm amazed if I can get free post it notes personally never mind specialist gynecologist sessions for lesbians.

I'm part of the Comms' team for a London based LGBT / sexual health org.

Ah, puts that one in context. We get an annual trip to Alton Towers if we're lucky.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Betty Croker

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2018, 01:10:35 PM »
Whenever I’ve been to see lesbian comedians the audience has been mostly lesbian. At one show there was only one man in the theatre. The only mainstream lesbian comedian I’ve ever been to see is Susan Calman, and the whole way through she kept doing gags about the wife. I felt like I’d timewarped back to the 1970s. It was about four years ago so she might have changed her act since, but I thought she’d sold out and I wasn’t impressed.

Susan Calman does this piece where she introduces herself as a lesbian then instantly says "But I don't hate men" and she repeats it about 8 times.

Can you imagine a gay male comedian announcing he is gay and following it up with "But I don't hate women". It wouldn't work.

Society accepts that gay men have a sexual orientation towards male bodies. We're not afforded the same good faith. Our orientation is attributed to irrational prejudice.

In the same way that our attempts to protect our physical and political spaces are attributed to irrational prejudice.

That other women are joining in with that disrespect and presumption of bad faith, even doing so in the name of feminism, shows how deep patriarchal forces are embedded.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Jules™

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2018, 01:15:45 PM »
Can you imagine a gay male comedian announcing he is gay and following it up with "But I don't hate women". It wouldn't work.
 

I've been out over 35 years and I have never once heard any gay men in any situation say they are gay "but I don't hate women".

I've heard plenty of lesbians come out with the  "I don't hate men" line.

Offline Betty Croker

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2018, 01:41:35 PM »
Can you imagine a gay male comedian announcing he is gay and following it up with "But I don't hate women". It wouldn't work.
 

I've been out over 35 years and I have never once heard any gay men in any situation say they are gay "but I don't hate women".

I've heard plenty of lesbians come out with the  "I don't hate men" line.

Yes as men, their sexuality is seen as centred in them. For women, its seen in terms of how it impacts other people, particularly men.

For women, whether its our bodies or our politics, we're always judged by how it effects others. We're never allowed to centre ourselves.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2018, 01:47:37 PM »
 Spot-on Betty 
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Offline Jules™

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2018, 01:53:24 PM »
Well, at least this thread has made me feel less alone and more optimistic.

Its a horrible feeling that you are one of the minority who can see the Emperor is actually starkers.  You KNOW he is, but if you point it out you are subject to double-speak and hostility.  (Or worse, patronising "explanations" that insult your intelligence)

This situation is so bizarre is actually quite frightening.  What next?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 01:58:20 PM by Jules™ »

Offline Madge Hooks

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2018, 02:25:36 PM »
Going back to getting the L out of LGBT, what would that look like exactly? Is it to remove it from Stonewall’s remit? Clearly lesbians are a divided church at the moment, so I don’t think an offshoot single focus lesbian organisation - however utopic that sounds - would be very successful in terms of support, funding, clout and experience, especially if the founding reason is backlash against trans movement. It’s a very negative stance.

Or is it conceptual? “I’m a lesbian and I don’t subscribe to being part of LGBT or any other letters of alphabet.” Ok.


Offline Chewwy

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2018, 02:41:00 PM »
Tonight we've an event to mark 30 years since Section 28.  It's proving hard to get the teachers along to this, but I'm told e/one's breaking up for halfterm / exam season etc, so bad timing really.   :-\

But if anyone does fancy, PM me.
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Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2018, 03:45:13 PM »
 I think there would be the support and plenty of experience, clout and funding would be more problematic I fear.
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Offline Lyco

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Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2018, 03:56:16 PM »
But lesbians have never really supported the scene. Not really.

Southopia, The Glass Bar, The Oak Bar, Due South, Rackets, The Drum, Xanadu's, Duke of Wellington, The Entertainer etc. etc. etc.

None of those venue's (or the others that I just can't remember) closed because of transwomen, they closed because lesbians do not spend money and while they quite like ranting on the internet (I include myself in this) they can't be bothered to go out and spend any actual money. Yes, there are successes like the Candy Bar and others but none of them targets the demographic you are all talking about.

Of course, some places are no longer there because of development/regeneration etc but half my mates are promoters/DJ's etc and I've been on the periphery of this for 30 years. It's almost impossible to set up a women-only space and have anyone regularly support it. Whether it's a bar or anything else.

On a Wednesday there's a discussion group at GTW. It's women only and it's been there for 35 years. I used to go reasonably regularly and I've often bumped into people I haven't seen for years revisiting, it's nice like that. There will always be someone new and someone old at every week. It's a women-only space, it's free, it's nice and welcoming and there are mostly good people there. And the only reason that space still exists is because of a core group who have literally been there every week for the entire time. 35 years of recycling Coming Out, Religion, Breaking Up and Parents. And I am bloody grateful they have and still do because that space is still there for anyone who needs it. Not because of me and my fair weather attendance but because women, every week have gone out in all weathers so that space can still exist.

The notion that lesbians are being erased is an easy one to hitch to the anti trans narrative but it's not true. In a scene sense, we erased ourselves with our complete lack of interest in it.