Author Topic: How far does your sexuality stretch?  (Read 39989 times)

Offline Betty Croker

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #705 on: May 16, 2018, 07:58:35 PM »
You donít think referring to our specific posts and then going on to summarise what was going on as nothing other than ďanti-trans sentiment in the name of womensí rightsĒ doesnít amount to calling us transphobes?

You think because you donít name call youíre not being offensive?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 08:00:47 PM by Betty Croker's frosted buns »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Slantrhyme

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,688
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #706 on: May 16, 2018, 08:05:00 PM »
 Iíve just watched this while cooking the tea
https://www.facebook.com/TheJamJarBristol/posts/793672257494647/
 Iíve got to 2 hours in and I havenít seen any of this evil transphobic hate speech and vitreal you talked of Top, Iíve just seen a group of women expressing their views and having a civilised discussion. Please can you point me to where exactly all this evil hate speech takes place?   Maybe it comes in the last 46 minutes I havenít watched yet? 
the summer is ended and we are not yet saved

Offline Top

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,369
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #707 on: May 16, 2018, 08:15:27 PM »
ďTrying to stay empathetic but also authenticĒ.

The use of ďauthenticĒ in the context of the last days posts have made me howl with laughter.

I think that authenticity is very important, when Stanty, replies to another posterís rape disclosure with this:

Quote
Hhayt,  iím sorry that happened to you. To be honest I donít remember seeing it but then I do tend to skip over your posts somewhat. Here you go, have a sticker, for winning.

I wonít pretend that I howled with laughter but I do doubt how much anyone who could make such a comment, gives any consideration to the victim of rape who donít agree with them.


Quote
I do believe the exemptions to the Equalities Act which allow for trans people to be kept out of single sex spaces where it a proportionate means to a legitimate purpose have been under-utilised due to aggressive trans activism.

What aggressive trans activism was this? Has there been a riot or perhaps a law suit that I havenít got wind of or is it just that people have been acting, within the law, for the best part of a decade, without incident and that annoys you?

Quote
And to Slanty, I would say your voice is authenticate. Your story and the reasons for telling it is being heard. The reason people want to viciously undermine your story is because it is so powerful and people who are authentic will hear it ring true. The others who want to obfuscate the issue (people who use ďnuanceĒ when they mean taking a silly indefensible position and clouding it with over complexity to disguise how silly it is) will never take it on board but thatís down to their own processes and stuff they need to fix.

Saying this to one woman and not the other, just makes you look like a vindictive, mean minded, victim blamer.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 08:23:41 PM by Top »
I'm reporting you to the mods for annoying me to the point where I become ill and have to take tranquillisers.  - Wolfie

Offline Lyco

  • Gingerbeer Scene Queen
  • ***
  • Posts: 224
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #708 on: May 16, 2018, 08:18:23 PM »
Hatey, Iím really sorry I didnít reference your post. It was in my head but I got sidetracked with work. I read it and Iím uncomfortable with people saying they didnít see it because they skim read you because you are Ďweirdí. That sounds off to me. There is no reason why the rest of you couldnít just either ignore it or acknowledge it without blaming her for the fact you didnít read it because of some past transgression.

And Iím almost reluctant to push the Ďpostí button on this because I donít want to invite a dissection of why people have an issue with hatey. They do, thatís fine (I donít btw) but this isnít the thread to recycle it.

As for Madge, yeah, I did agree with every word and I should have been more explicit but got wrapped up in my own reluctance to invite a victim blaming accusation. I think itís perfectly possible to genuinely feel sorry that happened and celebrate bravery in disclosure but also wonder why it was done in this topic when they are describing a completely different situation.


Offline Top

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,369
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #709 on: May 16, 2018, 08:20:44 PM »
Iíve just watched this while cooking the tea
https://www.facebook.com/TheJamJarBristol/posts/793672257494647/
 Iíve got to 2 hours in and I havenít seen any of this evil transphobic hate speech and vitreal you talked of Top, Iíve just seen a group of women expressing their views and having a civilised discussion. Please can you point me to where exactly all this evil hate speech takes place?   Maybe it comes in the last 46 minutes I havenít watched yet?

No, Iím not going to watch that for you. That was a fundraiser not one of the hate rallies. However, if you donít fancy watching the last 46 minutes, I can tell you know that you wonít find any transphobia in it because you refuse to acknowledge what transphobia is.
I'm reporting you to the mods for annoying me to the point where I become ill and have to take tranquillisers.  - Wolfie

Offline Betty Croker

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #710 on: May 16, 2018, 08:22:04 PM »
Thatís the second time youíve done that manipulative trick where you type onto my post so no one can tell whether they are my words on yours, Top.

I hadnít read HAHYTS post when I replied to Slanty so your point doesnít fly.

HAhyt claimed that if it was a contest she would probably be ďthe winnerĒ in the preceding post. Slanty was referring to that. So again, your point doesnít work.



And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Madge Hooks

  • Promoter
  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 948
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #711 on: May 16, 2018, 08:26:14 PM »
Iím going to make myself even more unpopular by saying the following. I know itís going to make me unpopular because of the nature of abuse. I donít want to sneer at or silence anyone. I just prefer to cut to the chase.

If this thread is about gender recognition, then unless the abuse has been carried out by men purporting to be women, whether trans women or beardy men who identify as a woman, Iím not sure why live in this thread.

This is no reflection on, or comment about the personal stories themselves. I believe you and I find it abhorrent, but that fight is to be done against men and against the system of pushing for belief and prosecution of sexual abuse and rape. Not on self id for trans.

Offline Slantrhyme

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,688
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 09:37:41 PM by Slantrhyme »
the summer is ended and we are not yet saved

Offline Madge Hooks

  • Promoter
  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 948
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #713 on: May 16, 2018, 08:29:23 PM »
I think itís perfectly possible to genuinely feel sorry that happened and celebrate bravery in disclosure but also wonder why it was done in this topic when they are describing a completely different situation.

Yes. It is.

Offline Betty Croker

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #714 on: May 16, 2018, 08:30:30 PM »
Hatey, Iím really sorry I didnít reference your post. It was in my head but I got sidetracked with work. I read it and Iím uncomfortable with people saying they didnít see it because they skim read you because you are Ďweirdí. That sounds off to me. There is no reason why the rest of you couldnít just either ignore it or acknowledge it without blaming her for the fact you didnít read it because of some past transgression.

And Iím almost reluctant to push the Ďpostí button on this because I donít want to invite a dissection of why people have an issue with hatey. They do, thatís fine (I donít btw) but this isnít the thread to recycle it.

As for Madge, yeah, I did agree with every word and I should have been more explicit but got wrapped up in my own reluctance to invite a victim blaming accusation. I think itís perfectly possible to genuinely feel sorry that happened and celebrate bravery in disclosure but also wonder why it was done in this topic when they are describing a completely different situation.

I didnít skim read it or skip over it. I didnít see it.

And she didnít reply to my abuse post either. So whatever sign of disrespect you want to nuance the hell out of that it flys both ways.

Thereís no celebration of bravery in Madgeís post. That must have been hidden in the ďnuanceĒ that only you lot can see.

And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Top

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,369
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #715 on: May 16, 2018, 08:31:33 PM »
Quote
Thatís the second time youíve done that manipulative trick where you type onto my post so no one can tell whether they are my words on yours, Top.


The very idea that Iíd want any confusion between what youíve said and what Iíve said! You come out with some real corkers you do. Some of my friends can read, you know, and Iíd like to keep them.

So, the best part of decade of everyone using the loos and changing rooms of their choice without incident, anything to add to that?
I'm reporting you to the mods for annoying me to the point where I become ill and have to take tranquillisers.  - Wolfie

Offline Betty Croker

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #716 on: May 16, 2018, 08:34:10 PM »
Iím going to make myself even more unpopular by saying the following. I know itís going to make me unpopular because of the nature of abuse. I donít want to sneer at or silence anyone. I just prefer to cut to the chase.

If this thread is about gender recognition, then unless the abuse has been carried out by men purporting to be women, whether trans women or beardy men who identify as a woman, Iím not sure why live in this thread.

This is no reflection on, or comment about the personal stories themselves. I believe you and I find it abhorrent, but that fight is to be done against men and against the system of pushing for belief and prosecution of sexual abuse and rape. Not on self id for trans.

Youíre not sure why because you wilfully ignore why we are saying itís relevant. But whether you see the relevance or not, we do.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Sorted.

  • Slutclique Fluffer
  • GB Testers
  • Gingerbeer Devotee
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,400
  • Hold your beliefs lightly.
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #717 on: May 16, 2018, 08:37:45 PM »
I said in my post this morning Ďso sorry for all you who have been abused or raped...í.  I didnít namecheck anyone. I thought it was a given I meant all of you.   Itís not on to assume that the sympathy stops when itís directed towards someone I disagree with...if thatís what Ďthe rest of youí impliesí

What a thing to be arguing about.

Offline Betty Croker

  • Gingerbeer Goddess
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
  • Gingerbeer.co.uk - The Lesbian Guide
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #718 on: May 16, 2018, 08:39:31 PM »
Quote
Thatís the second time youíve done that manipulative trick where you type onto my post so no one can tell whether they are my words on yours, Top.


The very idea that Iíd want any confusion between what youíve said and what Iíve said! You come out with some real corkers you do. Some of my friends can read, you know, and Iíd like to keep them.

So, the best part of decade of everyone using the loos and changing rooms of their choice without incident, anything to add to that?

I could go and dig around on the web. I could acknowledge at least two rape/attempted rape stories on here that werenít reported to the police. I know professionally of some voyeur incidents but most importantly the last ten years have not provided a cultural get out of jail free ticket for males who canít be challenged on their right to enter and stay in female space.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Blythe

  • Isle of Man Debating Champion 1981
  • Gingerbeer Lifer
  • *****
  • Posts: 27,416
    • http://www.gaydargirls.co.uk/scripts/ndisplay.asp?userid=rebecca-is-out
Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #719 on: May 16, 2018, 08:41:01 PM »
350 plus people orchestrating tweets/emails to journalists and establishments that appear to sympathise or wish to help various women's groups meet to discuss GRA related issues.
You don't think that number of people could very effectively block/persuade/bully people into avoiding the issue or facilitating discussion??


Mumsnet has 11m members. Iím really not seeing how even that number can be Ďsilencedí by 350, half of who you claim are mad.


Quote
That is worrying.
You're trying to minimise the attempt to shut down free speech.

Oh, so disagreeing with you is an attempt to shut down free speech? I think youíve got free speech and not being challenged confused.

Quote
A crowd of 30 people surrounded a lone woman at the Anarchist Book Fair who was handing out leaflets. She had to be rescued by the organisers. As a result of what they saw as mob tactics they decided to shut down the event forever more.
Anarchists!! They published a damning statement about the behaviour of trans activists.

Personally, if I was giving out transphobic/racist/homophobic literature at an Anarchists book fair and escaped unharmed, Iíd think it was a result. Those people are a bit anarchical.


Quote
What I see is women like the Rad fems reacting to that targeted onslaught. The TRA behaviour has actually caused women who weren't bothered about the issue to become aware.
Its peak transed far more than 350 men and women.
And I suspect will keep on doing so.

Whatís Ďpeak transedí? That doesnít sound very nice, it sounds quite anti trans people, is there a word for that?

Quote
I noticed about two months ago lots of the online TRA stopped saying terf and started saying anti trans instead as they probably realised that the Terf word was becoming a toxic word.

I think that itís became increasing obvious that there was nothing feminist or radical about hating people for who they are.

Quote
They've also started trying to insist that female as a word is trans exclusionary, another mistake. Scores of women are pissed off that FGM is supposedly transphobic now. Another blunder.
Things are moving so quickly it's hard to keep up sometimes.

Iíve seen these type of accusations before, Ďtrans stole my breast feedingí, the high point for me was when there was a Mumsnet thread about ripping up your organ donor card, in case Ďtrans got my uterusí. I canít work out if itís a result of too much gin or not nearly enough.

Things are moving quickly, the rate at which people can make up stories is astonishing. Iím sure theyíre made up because if there were real the TRA mafia with all of their Ďtrans moneyí would be directing the narrative so much more effectively.

Itís almost like there are a few hundred Mumsnet types who are a bit paranoid and will believe any shit they read with no critical thought a few hundred teenagers in their bedrooms who are either equally pananoid or are taking the piss. I suspect quite a few of them are playing both sides.

I'm pages behind everyone else but I'd like to address a few of these replies to my post.
Obviously a small group of trans activists can have a powerful effect on an organisation like Mumsnet. They set up a twitter account and stared reporting every post they considered transphobic to MNHQ. If they succeeded in shutting down that feminist board then 11 million women would no.longer have access to a place to debate.

Regarding  your comment about me posting therefore I'm not being silenced, obviously I am saying what I think, here and elsewhere because I refuse to keep quiet, but the attempt to silence debate is well documented. Everyone has noticed, even James Kirkup in the Spectator.
Here is an excellent article on that.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/if-mumsnet-can-stand-up-for-free-speech-why-cant-mps/


You've excused the behaviour of a mob against one woman at the Anarchist Book Fair. She was handing out leaflets that were concerned about the GRA... You've also called me GB'S transphobe in chief so I take it that you'd say I deserved it if a group of 30people surrounded and jostled and threatened me?
It sounds like you're condoning violence and bullying...

You didn't actually address the FGM point, you alluded to 'trans stole my breastfeeding' which is another good example of the unnecessary altering of terminology. If a transman wants to breastfeed their baby then they are breast feeding not chest feeding.. Their mammary glands are functioning as breasts not chests.
Please do me a favour and concede that FGM is in no way transphobic, no sane person could think otherwise.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 08:43:44 PM by Blythe »
'Someone take Blythe's mobile phone off her before she says something silly'           kitty