Author Topic: How far does your sexuality stretch?  (Read 24924 times)

Offline Lyco

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #30 on: Apr 22, 2018, 11:34:29 PM »
When I was a spotty little teenager I had spotty little teenage boys coming onto me. In my early 20s I had other lesbians, men and Ďbisexualí (i use quotation marks as I donít generally classify women who want a bit of girl of girl on girl while hubby wanks off before joining in as proper bisexualists) women coming onto me.

In my 30s I had some fallow years as I started looking less conventially het but now I have moved to rural Ireland and look as though I can carry a pig under each arm, I am again, in demand. I am literally fending off every local single farmer with a stick. And itís not like I have ever won any beauty contests. If you think Iíve had it bad, imagine my wifeís experience. Sheís properly attractive.

The point to all this (apart from to remind you all that I am a catch) is that no one has ever respected my sexual integrity. And Iím pretty certain this is the case for every woman. women, men, lesbians, transmen and the odd gay man have all tried to fish in my pond. Ironically, any approach I have had from a trans woman has been entirely respectful.

So, excuse me if I just roll my eyes at a few arseholes on twitter and those who are trying to make some kind of political mileage out of it.

Offline Top

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #31 on: Apr 22, 2018, 11:41:41 PM »
Youíre wrong, Top. There is shedloads of stuff by transactivists on social media arguing that itís discriminatory, transphobic and transmisogynist for lesbians to not consider sex with transwomen with penises. Just because some of it is on Twitter, doesnít mean it doesnít count.

I donít doubt for a second that you can find me examples of that. I can find you examples of people who think that Hitler is fantastic, Princess Di should be sainted and that salad cream is palatable. Like I say, people have some funny ideas. What I donít think those kinds of post show, is that these are normal ideas, typical of a whole community and I donít think the pushy behaviour of a few in a community should be used to demonise a whole community.

Personal, I like very butch women and Iíve had relationships with a few who have started to transition. Once they reach a certain point, their lack of dick doesnít keep me fancying them. No amount of anyone shouting Ďbiologyí at me, makes me find them sexually attractive. It doesnít feel like lesbian sex to me anymore but, you know, each to their own.
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Offline Top

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #32 on: Apr 22, 2018, 11:58:32 PM »
Quote
The point to all this (apart from to remind you all that I am a catch) is that no one has ever respected my sexual integrity.

Thatís an excellent point, wife.

No one has ever respected my sexuality. No man has ever said, ďoh youíre a lesbian, I totally understand and will leave you to drink in peaceĒ, never. Not once. I found that aggressive sexual attention has been ramped up, not died away when Iíve said that Iím a dyke. Iíd like to be able to tell you that itís only men who are sexually pushy but thatís not the case either, some lesbians arenít great at accepting Ďno thanksí either.

Personally, Iíve had no aggressive sexual attention from trans women but Iím not going to claim that it couldnít happen, Iím sure that some of them behave just as badly as some lesbians. However, I donít the see anyone trying to make political capital out of sexually pushy lesbians anymore. I did see it back in the 80s when the press loved a gay panic story, so that they could convince the person in the street that we were so dangerous that Section 28 was called for, but not recently.

Any road up, if this is a problem (and I donít think it is) what would be the solution?
I'm reporting you to the mods for annoying me to the point where I become ill and have to take tranquillisers.  - Wolfie

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #33 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:06:20 AM »
Obviously, the solution is to leave the law as it stands in respect of trans people. Or make it even more difficult for them.

What else, expect the focus to be on prosecuting violent men?

A lot of this reminds me of the women only train carriages proposal.

Offline Slantrhyme

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #34 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:10:34 AM »
 Is any of this self identification stuff actually under consultation, or is it just social media hysteria?  I hear and read a lot about it but Iím not aware of any legislation being considered.
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Offline Top

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #35 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:12:56 AM »
Obviously, the solution is to leave the law as it stands in respect of trans people. Or make it even more difficult for them

Thereís a law that stops trans women cracking on to lesbians? Are you sure, Iíve not heard of that?
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Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #36 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:14:32 AM »
Youíre wrong, Top. There is shedloads of stuff by transactivists on social media arguing that itís discriminatory, transphobic and transmisogynist for lesbians to not consider sex with transwomen with penises. Just because some of it is on Twitter, doesnít mean it doesnít count.

I donít doubt for a second that you can find me examples of that. I can find you examples of people who think that Hitler is fantastic, Princess Di should be sainted and that salad cream is palatable. Like I say, people have some funny ideas. What I donít think those kinds of post show, is that these are normal ideas, typical of a whole community and I donít think the pushy behaviour of a few in a community should be used to demonise a whole community.

Personal, I like very butch women and Iíve had relationships with a few who have started to transition. Once they reach a certain point, their lack of dick doesnít keep me fancying them. No amount of anyone shouting Ďbiologyí at me, makes me find them sexually attractive. It doesnít feel like lesbian sex to me anymore but, you know, each to their own.

Here's a perfect example :

https://youtu.be/k5GYlZKfBmI

Sure, you can find someone on the internet to advocate any bizarre belief. But I wouldn't say it was a fair characterisation of the current cotton ceiling debates to discount it in that way.  Its not just that that video by Riley J Dennis - has had 363,628 views on that one platform alone. Its also that she was presenting arguments (without any counter arguments) on Everyday Sexism which was marketing itself as a mainstream feminist tool for "woke" young feminists.

And I don't think its about demonizing a whole community at all. Or even suggesting that trans women are sexually pushy. Its more about the guilt trip, the transphobic name calling if you don't accept the argument whole sale. One of the strongest arguments against this all along has been that there are trans people against this type of thinking who's political voices are also been erased by it being assumed they are being spoken for. And who are becoming more vocal.

What is scary about it is the authoritarian way of dealing with the issue and the trans centring of it. "If you don't agree with me, you are a hater" - and you know what happens to haters, they get no platformed, they get socially ostracised, they get silenced. And we see time and time again that the press reporting makes no attempt to get to the bottom of the issues and is all too often willing to demonise gender criticism as bigotry and hatred without any investigation into what is being said. So Riley J Dennis says you're a cis-misogynist or a transphobe - nobody goes into the reasons behind that. Mud sticks and men like Owen Jones will thereafter refer to anyone with mud on them as an acceptible target.





« Last Edit: Apr 23, 2018, 12:24:12 AM by Betty Croker's frosted buns »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #37 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:20:24 AM »
Obviously, the solution is to leave the law as it stands in respect of trans people. Or make it even more difficult for them

Thereís a law that stops trans women cracking on to lesbians? Are you sure, Iíve not heard of that?

I meant the solution to the problem of trans women using the same public lavatories, and all the rest of the safety concerns, or for that matter, the LP's women only shortlist, obviously, the answer is to leave well alone, instead of dealing with the root cause of the problem.

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #38 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:21:38 AM »
Is any of this self identification stuff actually under consultation, or is it just social media hysteria?  I hear and read a lot about it but Iím not aware of any legislation being considered.

Yeah, the Tories have said they will make gender indentification a matter of self declaration by passing a new Gender Recognition Act and Jeremy Corbyn is agreeing to it on behalf of the unconsulted Labour members. The only barrier to it going through so far, is large numbers of posters on Mum's Net have vociferously opposed it and got labelled transphobic so Mums Net has had all its advertisers bullied by transactivists in an attempt to close it down for allowing debate on the subject.

But you know us hysterical women....wanting to have a say about something that effects us and all.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Top

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #39 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:26:50 AM »
Is any of this self identification stuff actually under consultation, or is it just social media hysteria?  I hear and read a lot about it but Iím not aware of any legislation being considered.

That depends of what you mean by Ďself identificationí. Since the Gender Recognition Act of 2004, trans people have, legally been able to change their gender. They can get a gender recognition certificate that allows them to be issued with a new birth certificate and did allow passport and driving licences to be changed. The rules around the latter have become a bit more relaxed in the intervening years.

To get a GRC, at the moment, you have to live in your aquired gender for two years, have a note from a doctor, fill in a very long form, send off  loads of money and the application then goes before a judicial panel. Itís a big faff and it takes ages.

Lots of trans people donít bother becasue, as youíll be aware, itís not really needed most of the time. No one ever checks ID going into a loo or a changing room and passports and driving licences can be changed without one now.

The proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act would make the process easier but itís not been decided quite how easy yet. Here in Ireland, a trans person make a statutory declaration in front of a solicitor, fills in a two page form and gets the GRC back two weeks later. The sky hasnít fallen in and, as far as Iím aware, lesbians are still free to sleep with who they like.

The other kind of Ďself IDí that some people seen annoyed at, is the 8 year old Equalities Act, which allows anyone to use the gendered facilities they like. Iíd, respectfully, suggest that if anyone hasnít been aware of these changes for the last 8 years, the impact hasnít been massive.

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Offline Top

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #40 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:30:48 AM »
I meant the solution to the problem of trans women using the same public lavatories, and all the rest of the safety concerns, or for that matter, the LP's women only shortlist, obviously, the answer is to leave well alone, instead of dealing with the root cause of the problem.

What problems are there with trans women using the ladies? Itís been going on for at least 14 years and Iíve had no problems, have you?

AWS have also been open to trans women for as long as they have been in existence, a trans women with a GRC is a legally women. However, there arenít any trans women elected MPs, are there?
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Offline Blythe

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #41 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:34:27 AM »
More evidence of widespread shaming and accusations against lesbians who say they are being accused of transphobia for their sexual preferences.
Arielle is a youtube lesbian with over 500,000 followers, and was the most trans inclusive youtuber and has now been harassed and called terf.
The trans woman on Blair is also very famous and agrees with her. She is also attacked by the trans activists.
https://youtu.be/f6ywxHAvAds

I have to go to bed but there's hours of evidence.
I will post more later.

It's totally disingenuous to pretend the transphobia accusations aren't widespread.
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Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #42 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:38:08 AM »
Is any of this self identification stuff actually under consultation, or is it just social media hysteria?  I hear and read a lot about it but Iím not aware of any legislation being considered.

That depends of what you mean by Ďself identificationí. Since the Gender Recognition Act of 2004, trans people have, legally been able to change their gender. They can get a gender recognition certificate that allows them to be issued with a new birth certificate and did allow passport and driving licences to be changed. The rules around the latter have become a bit more relaxed in the intervening years.

To get a GRC, at the moment, you have to live in your aquired gender for two years, have a note from a doctor, fill in a very long form, send off  loads of money and the application then goes before a judicial panel. Itís a big faff and it takes ages.

Lots of trans people donít bother becasue, as youíll be aware, itís not really needed most of the time. No one ever checks ID going into a loo or a changing room and passports and driving licences can be changed without one now.

The proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act would make the process easier but itís not been decided quite how easy yet. Here in Ireland, a trans person make a statutory declaration in front of a solicitor, fills in a two page form and gets the GRC back two weeks later. The sky hasnít fallen in and, as far as Iím aware, lesbians are still free to sleep with who they like.

The other kind of Ďself IDí that some people seen annoyed at, is the 8 year old Equalities Act, which allows anyone to use the gendered facilities they like. Iíd, respectfully, suggest that if anyone hasnít been aware of these changes for the last 8 years, the impact hasnít been massive.

Then there should be no problem whatsover in letting women have consultation meetings to discuss how it effects them then without masked men blocking them or transactivists assaulting them.

Technically anyone can ID as anything. The question is in what circumstances is that id recognised legally and is it for all intents and purposes - say for instance Ian Huntley self id'ing as a women to move to a womens prison.

How it will be done has not been made clear. The fact that its done by way of stat dec in Ireland has obviously no automatic relevance to how it will be done here and the point is that gender and sex effects everyone not just trans people and sex is a protected category under Equality Law too.
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #43 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:38:55 AM »
^^Did you miss that I said all this reminded me of the women only train carriages proposal? (Corbyn's I think).

That was vetoed on the grounds that it would normalise male violence, and the focus instead should be on making public transport safer. So, that's the way I see the concerns over what may happen if just anyone is allowed to go around calling themselves a woman, and use of the loos, always gets top billing on the list of concerns.

My own RL, as usual, bears no comparison to any of this. Last Summer, I accidentally blundered into the male only showers, with two equally short sighted friends, in a nude only Berlin sauna. The men trying to shower went off to fetch security to get us out of their space, we all met in a blurry gaze as we were coming out.

Offline Top

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Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Reply #44 on: Apr 23, 2018, 12:41:01 AM »
Yeah, the Tories have said they will make gender indentification a matter of self declaration by passing a new Gender Recognition Act and Jeremy Corbyn is agreeing to it on behalf of the unconsulted Labour members. The only barrier to it going through so far, is large numbers of posters on Mum's Net have vociferously opposed it and got labelled transphobic so Mums Net has had all its advertisers bullied by transactivists in an attempt to close it down for allowing debate on the ]subject

Now, those people that you call transactivists, I call friends, they are mostly older dykes like ourselves and some trans people. What they want to see is the end of transphobia on Mumsnet, not the end of Mumsnet. To a woman, they think that MN is comedy gold and would hate to see anything happen to it.

Quote
But you know us hysterical women....wanting to have a say about something that effects us and all.

We both know that respectful debate is possible without disrespectful behaviour. Mumsnet themselves. have acknowledged that things have got out of hand and have made statements about their moderation policy. Pretending that there hasnít been some transphobic behaviour is a case of Nelson putting the telescope up to his blind eye and declaring Ďno Frenchí.
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