Author Topic: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?  (Read 468 times)

Offline Lust for Life

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Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« on: Jan 26, 2018, 03:15:17 PM »
I may be very late to the party, I usually am, but I have just discovered that it's possible to use my Amazon account to support a UK charity, including Stonewall.

I know there are lots of issues with Amazon, mainly staffing, tax and the consequences for real bookshops, but I am still a customer. I see this as a small comfort that I can reduce my Amazon footprint a tiny bit this way. Years ago, I used to visit Amazon via a primary school website, but for years this didn't seem to be possible any more.

It involves signing into smile.amazon.uk instead of the regular site, but otherwise seems fairly simple. The description of Stonewall curiously only refers to it as a human rights organization, but this may be to fly under the radar of any haters, I am not sure. I couldn't find any mention of Amazon on Stoewall's site, either.

Is this a rather elaborate hoax, or does anyone have any more info on the background to this?

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 27, 2018, 03:40:45 PM »
I'd be as uncomfortable supporting Stonewall as I would Amazon at the moment, LFL. And I say that as someone who had a standing order monthly contribution to Stonewall for many years.

Have you seen their "Make sport everyone's game" posters?

https://goo.gl/images/CWvvaF

Eight men in football strips, a male referee and a token woman who looks like she was dragged in to take part as an afterthought. Twenty years ago any organisation concerned with progress would have looked at that poster and alarm bells would have rang. The Stonewall Chief Ex had it proudly blazing as her cover photo on Twitter until there were objections.

And their attempts to discredit and distort any feminist critique or even discussion of the potential effect the new Gender Recognition proposals may have on women's resources is frankly, disgusting. You don't have to be for or against women only shortlists to recognise they were needed for a reason, same with women's colleges, bursaries for minority and underprivileged women and women-centred rape crisis centres. Women discussing the impact on that has been equated to out and out transphobia by Stonewall and those traditional old male chestnuts of over-reaction, moral panic and hysteria attributed to feminism.

Lesbians rarely if ever benefitted from Stonewall unless their interests coincided exactly with gay mens'. But now they are actively acting against the interests of women including lesbians and do nothing to close down historical revisionist and logic warpers like this muppet https://queerfeminism.com/2012/03/27/the-cotton-ceiling-is-real-and-its-time-for-all-queer-and-trans-people-to-fight-back who argue lesbianism itself is transphobic and urge women who do not want to have sex involving biological penises to "interrogate" their own sexual preferences because they deem our preferences to be wrong. No other group but lesbians would allow attempts to have their sexuality policed in this way or allow the body that supposedly represents them to not to condemn that.

« Last Edit: Jan 27, 2018, 11:12:55 PM by Betty Croker's frosted buns »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline mint

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 27, 2018, 10:16:01 PM »
If they believe this: " How boring it must be to have sex with someone who reduces your body, your sexual creativity, and your capacity to a penis.  How hurtful to engage sexually with someone who denies your humanity" then aren't they being hypocritical by ruling out sex with cis men?

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 27, 2018, 10:44:43 PM »
If they believe this: " How boring it must be to have sex with someone who reduces your body, your sexual creativity, and your capacity to a penis.  How hurtful to engage sexually with someone who denies your humanity" then aren't they being hypocritical by ruling out sex with cis men?

Well, I don't think they'd even start that sh*t with gay men. Nobody questions that gay men are just attracted to male bodies and their preference for them isn't an act of bitterness or hatred or rejection towards women. Its their sexuality. But our sexuality is generally not respected in that way. There is this pervasive disrespect that suggests we can be nagged into being turned on by penis and if we are not then we are committing some sort of hate crime.

When I was turning down sex with boys and men in my teens and onwards, it wasn't because their penises were triggering my latent transphobia, ffs. It was because I'm a lesbian and knobs and associated kit don't ignite anything in me but ennui.

And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Trifle

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 28, 2018, 07:32:07 PM »
^ I read the article linked in your post, Betty. I found it absolutely infuriating and to be honest the author sounds totally nuts. The sport posters are shocking too - i’m not sure how Stonewall can think that’s acceptable.

I was in a work meeting the other day and the topic of gender identity came up and some women were saying with contempt how ridiculous people like Germaine Greer were for making a fuss about trans people potentially using women’s toilets. I found it depressing there was no acknowledgement within this discussion that if women like Germaine Greer had never stood up and spoken out in history then we’d all be living in the dark ages still and not even allowed to vote, own property or have a life that didn’t involve being owned by a man.


Offline Lust for Life

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 28, 2018, 09:13:13 PM »
I read the article and masses of the discussion in the comments, but I stopped after a couple of hours (!)

I had not heard of the cotton ceiling debate, and kind of hoped this meant it had disappeared as a term, at least. But no, it's still with us, and has been redefined since 2012 to make it look like only crazy lesbians could be so mean and nasty as to object. They're now saying it refers to the underwear of a transwoman, that no one wants to get through their cotton underwear, rather than that no one else will let them into theirs. Both discussions are possible, but modeled on the glass ceiling, the new definition makes no sense. Men are upset that no women want to join them in the boardroom above the glass ceiling? I don't think so... ::)

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 28, 2018, 09:33:33 PM »
 :(   I can’t imagine them even bothering to nag straight men into loving scrotum.

Its a shame they don’t get that it’s not going to be about transwomen in womens spaces - it’s going to be about anyone who chooses to call themselves female in womens spaces whether there is any objective or true basis to that person claiming to be trans or female. I was reading some old back posts on GB when at least one trans woman was defending the current law on the basis that there was evidence of a genuine transition history for someone to access say, a womens Prison. It wasn’t just a spurious act of self identification that gave them access. That objective basis gave some comfort to both transwomen and women in general that trans status was not being abused or taken lightly and unless the new Act is stopped that will go.

Peter Thatchell has been tweeting today “feminists are mistaken in their fears” - like how would he bloody know?

Have men ever really cared about the preservation of womens spaces? I think they’ve used transwomen as a battering ram to get rid of them.

On the CO of Stonewall’s Twitter there is an article that she has retweeted entitled “I’m sick of feminism being used as a stick to beat transwomen with” like wtf does that actually mean? Feminism is about creating a world where women can be treated as equals with men. That either matters or it doesn’t. Next thing we will be getting articles with “I’m sick of feminism being used as stick to beat sexist men with”.

Underneath it a transwomen has tweeted “Yay, let’s get rid of all women short-lists altogether. That’ll wind them up.” No one has taken her to task on it. Beggars belief.
« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2018, 09:48:05 PM by Betty Croker's frosted buns »
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt.......

Offline Lust for Life

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 28, 2018, 09:40:00 PM »
Sorry, the phone rang while I was posting. I also wanted to say thanks for pointing me in the direction of the whole can of worms. Well, obviously I wish it wasn't a can of worms, but I'd rather know about it than not.

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Re: Amazon supports Stonewall... Opinions on this?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 28, 2018, 10:39:25 PM »
Another plug for Biblio, https://biblio.co.uk/. Not an Amazon owned company.