Author Topic: Election 2017  (Read 4198 times)

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #45 on: Apr 22, 2017, 11:10:09 PM »
I will be voting Conservative.
How come?

Offline Pomegranate

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #46 on: Apr 23, 2017, 07:08:13 PM »
Middle son will be voting for the first time, but the election is right in the middle of A levels so he won't really have time to pay much attention to the campaigns  >:(
He is however aware of Jeremy Corbyn's pledge to scrap uni tuition fees and reinstate the maintenance grant, so that will hopefully sway him in the right direction  :D

Can Mr Corbyn please explain how these grants will be covered? Last week he was promising free school meals for all primary school children. He stated that he would place a 20% tax on private school fees to pay for this. I wonder how he"ll then fund the additional state school places required after parents have had to remove their children from private schools due to Corbyn's virtue signalling tax.

Offline Pomegranate

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #47 on: Apr 23, 2017, 07:22:16 PM »
I will be voting Conservative.
How come?


To give the Conservatives a bigger majority and ensure that Brexit is pushed through once and for all. There is no soft/hard Brexit. Let me make it clear that Brexit means a complete exit of the EU that is what Leave voters voted for.




Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #48 on: Apr 23, 2017, 07:24:53 PM »
Oh dear. It must be absolutely terrifying to you to imagine a world where all children have fair access to education and are all on a level playing field regardless of how much unearned wealth their parents inherited  ;D

Scared you'll start sliding down the greasy pole?

Offline Amber

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #49 on: Apr 23, 2017, 07:27:32 PM »
I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that the way the current scheme works, most graduates will never pay off their full student loans and they will be cancelled after 30 years, so it is a ridiculous system.
My son is embarking on a 3 (possibly 4) year course...the tuition fees are £9250.00 per year and he is entitled to the higher rate maintenance loan of approx £9000.00 per year due to my low income as a single parent. (His older brother was lucky enough to receive half of this as a grant and half as a loan but this has changed this year.) As the system currently stands he will start to repay this as a percentage when his earnings are above £21,000. If he is an average earner throughout his life, he will most likely only ever repay £23,000 of his loans. Martin Lewis explains this better than I will be able to, if anyone is interested.
My point is, it is a ridiculous system, which is failing as it is. Jeremy Corbyn's plan will take away the worry from so many low income families and families who worry about 'debt', without impacting much on the bottom line.

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #50 on: Apr 23, 2017, 09:21:43 PM »
Let me make it clear that Brexit means a complete exit of the EU that is what Leave voters voted for.

You are not a dictator. You are only qualified to say what *you* voted for or wanted it to mean.  I heard Daniel Hannan and friends babbling on pre-June 23 and nobody even outlined what Leave meant let alone agreed.

So is Switzerland in the EU?
« Last Edit: Apr 23, 2017, 09:24:33 PM by Wolfgang »

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #51 on: Apr 23, 2017, 09:28:20 PM »
Also, you are aware of the theory that May wants a bigger majority to have the leeway within her own party to finagle a softer/less complete Brexit, yah?
« Last Edit: Apr 23, 2017, 09:31:05 PM by Wolfgang »

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #52 on: Apr 23, 2017, 10:09:51 PM »
I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that the way the current scheme works, most graduates will never pay off their full student loans and they will be cancelled after 30 years, so it is a ridiculous system.
My son is embarking on a 3 (possibly 4) year course...the tuition fees are £9250.00 per year and he is entitled to the higher rate maintenance loan of approx £9000.00 per year due to my low income as a single parent. (His older brother was lucky enough to receive half of this as a grant and half as a loan but this has changed this year.) As the system currently stands he will start to repay this as a percentage when his earnings are above £21,000. If he is an average earner throughout his life, he will most likely only ever repay £23,000 of his loans. Martin Lewis explains this better than I will be able to, if anyone is interested.
My point is, it is a ridiculous system, which is failing as it is. Jeremy Corbyn's plan will take away the worry from so many low income families and families who worry about 'debt', without impacting much on the bottom line.

^Agreed
People should support Labour now. Even if they don't like many things about them, it will just make everything worse if people decide not to vote or divide votes to different parties.
At least I know who will I vote for.
“Expectations are resentments under construction.”
― Anne Lamott

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #53 on: Apr 24, 2017, 07:34:12 PM »
Sorry @Pomegranate I had initially intended to keep things civil.

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2017, 11:23:14 PM »
Why did Brussels leak the €100bn figure now?  How will it do anything other than increase May's votes?

Offline Tired, Confused & Duped

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2017, 11:49:17 PM »
^If that's what it'll do, maybe that's what they want.

Supposing we actually got Corbyn, things wouldn't be too bad (or not as bad as they will be with May) and might encourage more exits.

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2017, 01:06:31 AM »
The EU would *mince* Corbyn.  They are professional outfoxers who would  be running rings around him before he'd even found his biro.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 01:08:10 AM by Wolfgang »

Offline Tired, Confused & Duped

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2017, 01:55:49 AM »
Wouldn't anyone 'mince' Corbyn?

But still, the impact of Brexit for the UK under him would not feel nearly as bad as it's going to feel under May. We have to be punished, as an example of what happens when the main protector of workers' rights no longer has any force. If they could foist an @rsehole like Trump on us they would because then it'd be super sh!t but May is the best worst option available.

We have all, collectively, just said up yours which has to be made to look like a really stupid choice which it might not look like if we exited, got Corbyn and all UK students got free uni tuition, etc. Then it might look like we'd saved a ton of money and were spending it properly, on us. Under May of course, there's no risk of any of that happening and it will be sh!t, sh!ttier and well and truly utterly sh!te.
 
The UK Remain vote wasn't exactly morally kosher, turning a blind eye to Greece out of fear for our own skins at the hands of a right wing government is probably not confined to the UK. There'll be other countries with similar morally questionable reasons for their Europhilism. They have to be shown what kind of d!ckheads with power unfettered by the EU, they'll end up with if they dare to do what the UK has done.

Imagine how it'd look if the UK, out of the whole EU, had the best public transport system, modern trains running on time, no over crowding, no selling season tickets for more seats than are available, no massaging of arrival times, affordable fares. If we reverted to England's green and pleasant land and gave students a maintenance grant, and didn't charge them for tuition. If our hospitals ran like a well oiled machine and anyone who got sick could rely on getting treatment without having to run the gauntlet of GPs bent on avoiding making costly referrals, etc, etc. If it was all actually quite nice and the UK was on course to become somewhere civilized, there'd be other defections.

I'm making this up at nearly 2am so if there's a good reason why it's all wrong, I'd quite like to know but since Brexit and since Trump, I'm trying to take the most jaundiced view of everything in an attempt to avoid disappointment.

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2017, 01:03:48 AM »
Imagine how it'd look if the UK, out of the whole EU, had the best public transport system, modern trains running on time, no over crowding, no selling season tickets for more seats than are available, no massaging of arrival times, affordable fares. If we reverted to England's green and pleasant land and gave students a maintenance grant, and didn't charge them for tuition. If our hospitals ran like a well oiled machine and anyone who got sick could rely on getting treatment without having to run the gauntlet of GPs bent on avoiding making costly referrals, etc, etc. If it was all actually quite nice and the UK was on course to become somewhere civilized, there'd be other defections.

I'm making this up at nearly 2am so if there's a good reason why it's all wrong, I'd quite like to know but since Brexit and since Trump, I'm trying to take the most jaundiced view of everything in an attempt to avoid disappointment.

I'm not sure I follow…  you're suggesting the EU intervened because there is a real danger of Corbyn turning Britain into a better place?

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2017, 09:35:26 AM »
Watching without surprise but with distaste as the ire of Corbynites turns onto the electorate for being biased against Corbyn.

Quotes from a debate with some of them yesterday on the wisdom of calling working class and ordinary people stupid  as an election strategy :

Mr X : "Well they are stupid"

MR. B "Well, you present them with facts and evidence and that doesn't seem to work so what else is there to do but call them stupid?"

Mr. D "Its not our fault people are choosing to be stupid. If I'm going to loose either way, I might as well call someone a cunt, when they are being one."

Mr A : Ordinary people are more interested in waving biscuit tins of pastoral English villages that never really looked like that and muttering vague accusations about foreigners than listening to anything meaningful"

Mr. Y "I'm not responsible for their stupidity and I will not baby my working class peers to spare their feelings."

MR. W "Instead of listening to facts and experts they cling onto their own worldviews regardless".

And meanwhile, the Tories make more and more gains.

Whenever socialism has made huge gains and brought about positive change in the world it was because the impetus and the conviction to do so came from the people themselves. Socialism cannot be dragged uphill from the top down. It cannot be imposed by people who think they know better on to people who are not convinced. It cannot be barked at a populace from a jargonistic minority at the head of a political party. It has to be a groundswell from below. That's how we got the NHS.

The peoples trust in big, collective solutions needs to restored before they will vote for socialism. It has been systematically and deliberately wrecked and undermined by the right wing. The "deficit" had been carried for years by all parties in pretty much all countries. Yet the Tories chose to whistle-blow it and frame it a number one problem as if it was a left wing phenomenon. Same with the expenses scandal. The EU was skillfully framed as being all about waste and politicians abusing the system leading to the LEAVE victory. The same narrative (hate that word) is being spun around the NHS but with greedy administrators replacing greedy politicians. People will more easily trust a fable that rests on human greed than human co-operation. That's why the right have an advantage.

I hope against all hope that there isn't a Tory landslide but if there is, for the left to stand any chance of helping ordinary people, they have got to stop preaching to them and start harnessing their concerns and natural instincts as a force for change in a collective, positive way rather than a reason to hate on them and label them stupid.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 09:37:40 AM by Betty Croker's frosted buns »