Author Topic: Election 2017  (Read 5644 times)

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #165 on: Jun 30, 2017, 04:47:45 PM »
Not strictly about the election, but can someone explain Labour's (particularly Corbyn's) attitude to Brexit? I just don't get it.

I don't think Labour's attitude and Corbyn's are the same. That's part of the problem.

My "I just don't get it" is why Corbyn and Baroness Shambles think they actually won the election by coming in second place.

Is second the new first?


Offline Lust for Life

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #166 on: Jun 30, 2017, 09:54:25 PM »
To be fair, compared with the wipe-out that happened in France, it was an achievement of sorts.

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #167 on: Jun 30, 2017, 10:04:04 PM »
Describing it like that is not contentious though, LFL.

Claiming to have won it is.

Offline Lust for Life

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #168 on: Jul 01, 2017, 07:22:02 AM »
Blimey, that sent me googling, BCfb :o

I thought you meant they were (just) acting like they'd won.

Since the signing with the DUP there is absolutely no wiggle room for claiming a victory.

As an aside, did you know that we still don't have a government in the Netherlands? Our election was in March ::)

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #169 on: Jul 01, 2017, 12:28:07 PM »
Blimey, that sent me googling, BCfb :o

I thought you meant they were (just) acting like they'd won.

Since the signing with the DUP there is absolutely no wiggle room for claiming a victory.

As an aside, did you know that we still don't have a government in the Netherlands? Our election was in March ::)

The winner of a UK election is the party who won the most seats. The Tories also received the most votes which is not the test of who won but still a pretty bizarre claim to suggest that the party who came second on both these measurements actually won it.

Shambles made the claim that Corbyn won the election on Question Time and was jeered. And Corbyn made it after the election. They are not disputing Labour came second in terms of both seats and votes or that May doesn't constitutionally have the right to try to form a Government first. They just claim that in some parallel universe for some undisclosed reason, he effectively won. Except he didn't.

And the almost Donald Trump, post-truth, believe your own hype nature of it is chilling.

 Not because, as you, I and others have said, it's a relief that the Tories have their hands currently tied at least in terms of anything controversial and the anti-right turnout was much bigger than anticipated and is very heartening especially after the signs after the council elections (where Corbyn did inflict big losses on Labour councils). All of that is true and good reason to be hopeful. But because they can't stop there. They are fixated on presenting a self serving fiction as fact despite the most empirical evidence imaginable. The number of seats won. The number of votes won. Like the child who came second in musical chairs and refuses to concede, left crouching in mid air on an imaginary chair insisting they are the winner.

F@cking hell. Didn't know that about Holland. What's occurring there?
« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2017, 12:53:45 PM by Betty Croker's frosted buns »

Offline Lust for Life

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #170 on: Jul 02, 2017, 12:28:34 AM »
Technically speaking, even in the uk, it's possible to win the election but not get to form a government.

Suppose you have a hung parliament, and everyone refuses to work with the winning party. But two or three losing parties agree to work together - then the losers become the winners.

In practice, that's extremely unlikely, though it is what Corbyn was referring to when he said he was ready to step up.

In the Netherlands, the winning party is still in negotiation with several other parties. This has been going on since March. It's pretty normal here, although they can be quicker about it. It's not the longest they've spent on it.

If Wilders had won, I think we would have been looking at a situation where the winner couldn't find enough support to form a government with a majority.

Offline Betty Croker's frosted buns

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Re: Election 2017
« Reply #171 on: Jul 02, 2017, 01:46:27 AM »
That's not winning the election, LFL. That's losing it but being prepared to try and form a coalition or minority government if the actual winner can't. Neither of which Corbyn was referring to when he claimed that he had won it.

There was nothing wrong with Corbyn saying he was ready to step up to form a Government. It was Corbyn and Chakrabahti both specifically claiming he had "won the election" that is the cause for concern. Because he didn't.

 
« Last Edit: Jul 02, 2017, 08:58:49 AM by Betty Croker's frosted buns »