Author Topic: hard limits... and the opposite  (Read 4168 times)

Lodjur

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hard limits... and the opposite
« on: Feb 09, 2015, 10:41:26 PM »
Hello there  :)

I was wondering what in your opinion could be a good way to to list your hard limits and then create your "yes please" list.

I ask you that because I'm revising & readjusting both my lists and it could be enriching to read how you deal with it and discuss it among us.

The point is that I realized I'm writing the hard limits list as a way of self-defense: it's waaaaay longer and more detailed that the positive list!
I keep reading online articles of all sorts and of course I realize that there is more and more possibilities than the ones I thought so far, so I go: "Omg if I don't say NO to that it can pop up in play because is not an explicit hard limit, gotta add it to the list!". And of course then I start worrying that I have not been clear/detailed enough and I try to imagine every possible way to misread a hard limit and consider allowed something that in my mind is not ok at all, and so I rewrite and add to exhaustion.

Results? My "yes please" list is a bare shopping list and the hard limits list looks like the penal code.  ;D

How do you tackle your do-it-now and not-a-chance-in-hell lists?   :)
« Last Edit: Feb 09, 2015, 10:59:40 PM by Lodjur »

Lodjur

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #1 on: Feb 10, 2015, 10:36:13 PM »
Thank you cupcake as always for sharing your experience!  :)

I work a very simple list of hard boundaries and mention some soft boundaries.
Now that you make me think of it, I have no soft limits listed at all.
I feel like giving free rein to the Dom/me within my "yes please" list. It does not have to be something that I like or that I like now, it can be even something I never thought of, as long as it is in the "yes" list: that's why is very generic, it's a list of categories more than activities.

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I usually work more with safewords than I do with stated boundaries.
I honestly thought that this was for emergencies, because we don't know ourselves completely so we can erroneously think that we would be ok when practice suddenly shows that it is not like that, and also because of our inner dynamics we might cross a boundary and only then be aware of it.
I also have a feeling that if I should make an effort to be the most self-aware and honest that I can be, so everything I know is a "no" I should tell before instead of giving it a go... if deep down I know that is not my thing.
I don't want to be in a bad position if asked: "didn't you know that you was against this activity?": but that's me, in a  relationship like the one I'm looking for that kind of open communication and disclosures.

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My hard boundaries are few and simple.
That I find interesting: how do you know that you are being clear? I mean, you say "Xyz is a hard limit" and than your partner that for you is xyz but s/he thought it was not, or worse you get the answer: "I thought that you meant xyz properly, not that other particular activity".
Sorry, I'm that confused.  ;D


Lodjur

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #2 on: Feb 11, 2015, 09:22:59 PM »
I've played for close to ... I dunno... 25 years? Or more.
That's awesome.

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So for me, I know how fuzzy some things can be.
Than I need some advice on a thing that I mulled over today: if you learn through trial and error, how can you cope with the emotional hurt? I mean, we all get hurt and have big and small traumas to overcome, isn't there a way to avoid to add to that experience while discovering BDSM?

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New partners, in my personal experience, need lots of feedback.
I will keep that in mind!

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I don't have a lot of "yes please" because I prefer working to their desires. Not my own. Perhaps this is why?
That makes perfect sense.  :)
What about a more long term relationship? Your desires plays a huge role in that, something like 50% of it...

Groke

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #3 on: Feb 12, 2015, 06:58:35 PM »
Sexually my desire is to serve their desire. That *is* my sexual desire.

For me BDSM is about being used for sex.


This is so hot.

I wish I know how to do this stuff.

Lodjur

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #4 on: Feb 12, 2015, 09:23:39 PM »
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What emotional hurt. Sincerely, I am not really sure what you are talking about.
Uhm, I have a couple examples to try and explain myself better.
For me humiliation is a hard limit, but let's say that you are into humiliation play and receiving it: your partner says a demeaning phrase to you and then you realize it hurts you for real, because it reminds you of someone who bullied you with the same words. You stop it, discuss it, but is not that your pain is going away like it never happened. Or you have a phobia of can openers  ;D and your partner suddenly pulls one out of the pocket: you just forgot to inform your partner before because is totally unpleasant for you even to think about it, so you now stop the play and talk, but is not that you are less shocked by the contact of the object of your phobia.
That's about the scenario when you are discovering something on the way.

The other scenario if when you state a hard limit and your partner (hopefully not on purpose) bypass it.
Like your hard limit is "no mockery" and your partner laugh at you as if s/he is laughing at something funny with no apparent intent of mocking you: you still feel is mockery, but hey, s/he is not actively taunting you. So? Do you have to write a paragraph stating every single action that for you is mockery, possibly mind guessing every single partner you will have, to avoid being hurt?

Sorry if it is a bit exaggerate, I tend to do that when I try to illustrate something....

Offline fetishkitty

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #5 on: Feb 12, 2015, 09:25:41 PM »
Sexually my desire is to serve their desire. That *is* my sexual desire.

For me BDSM is about being used for sex.


This is so hot.

I wish I know how to do this stuff.

As a top, I would say it comes with experience. Both experience at being a top, and experience at finding and selecting suitable people to do this stuff with.

When I started topping about 15 years ago I was definitely a service top. My negotiation would go 'what do you like' and I'd design a scene more around the bottom's preferences than my own. Over time that shifted. I got more confident in my practical skills, and also more comfortable inhabiting a dominant role. Now when I negotiate I only require hard limits and what's on the edge for someone. With someone new I will then propose a scene/activities we might do together...they then get to say whether they want to do those things or not (if not, then we don't play). If the relationship develops then I stop telling them what I'm going to do...they trust me not to overstep limits. Also, I now deliberately choose partners who don't want a service top, but who get turned on by giving up the power and control. Who are turned on by me satisfying my desires.

It takes time, but it is possible, even in the UK. You just have to realise that you are fishing in a pretty small pool (lesbian, kinky, submissive in that way).

kitty

Groke

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #6 on: Feb 12, 2015, 11:06:13 PM »
Ok. Well, thanks FK and Icupcake.

It's all food for thought.

Offline nismat

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #7 on: Feb 12, 2015, 11:27:30 PM »
Sexually my desire is to serve their desire. That *is* my sexual desire.

For me BDSM is about being used for sex.


This is so hot.

I wish I know how to do this stuff.

Seconded! Definitely very hot.

For me, this whole area is unexplored and is only in my head/fantasies; not even something I can really foresee an opportunity to explore, given where my life/relationship is :-\
But it's fascinating to read other's perspectives, not in a voyeuristic way, but from an "oh, so that's what it's like/how it works for you" point of view. Enlightening and intriguing.  :)

edited to make more sense!
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2015, 11:29:15 PM by nismat »

Lodjur

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #8 on: Feb 13, 2015, 07:16:43 PM »
Cupcake, it all make sense and you are really lovely in sharing that much!  :D

I never thought of triggers as something part of the whole life, basically because I wrongly assumed that things in my life just happens and BDSM is something that I actively create so it is my responsibility deal with triggers in that and not in other areas of life. But I will look at them in a more general way now.

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Then during the scene something pops up you aren't comfortable with you yellow/red and have a brief chat and carry on
What worries me is that I'm going to disappoint someone. As if having triggers is my fault or an irritating quirk.
Like your partner saying: "I was having/giving the flogging of my life and you ruined it by stopping it just because the last two strokes reminded you of your great-granma's stale biscuits!"  ;D

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you practice taking care of yourself and asking for a bit of help and building trust.
I'm going to need a lot of practice with that, I'm not a specialist...

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I trust my body to know what I'm emotionally feeling more than my brain
Detailed lesson, please. How do you do that?

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So I try and stay aware of what my body is doing in response to them. My mind that's embodied is usually telling me the truth about how I feel. Not my mind that is Embrained. My brain does all kinds of fancy stepping and justifications.
I envy you. I hav an overriding kind of mind most of the time. So bothersome.

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You need to tell them how to deal with your Triggers.
In all honesty I'm afraid of that. Is like giving an unknown foreign country the secrets of building a nuclear bomb.

You make me feel like I'm in for something interesting bit of self-growth.

Offline marzipan gnome

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #9 on: Feb 13, 2015, 07:50:09 PM »

shit happens!  You need to stop over analysing and worrying about what might be and enjoy life and the experiences it provides. Doing that might even help you whittle that hard limit list down to minimal.    :)

Groke

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #10 on: Feb 13, 2015, 09:46:40 PM »
I ought to read the Bottoming book. I read the Topping book recently. It was helpful.

Offline fetishkitty

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #11 on: Feb 13, 2015, 10:54:32 PM »
A slightly different point of view: in nearly 20 years of BDSM I have never 'triggered' anyone, or been 'triggered'. I've had one person give me a yellow (ie. back off) safeword during a flogging, as it was something new to them and not to their taste.

I play with both physical sensation/pain and mental stuff like humiliation, consensual non-consent and resistance.

So, it doesn't *have* to be that kind of experience...it can be totally positive, enjoyable experience.

kitty

Offline marzipan gnome

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #12 on: Feb 13, 2015, 11:33:38 PM »
what they said...sorry Lodjur,  I find it hard to follow all what you say and the many points and questions that develop from cupcakes responses.   In the nicest possible way - really - go with it.

After a recent sports massage I'm loving the massage analogy! 

And we all have those wobbles where we think they will be disappointed in us because of something or other. I had an experience along those lines and was told it was fine because it meant they they were able to be more mean to me.  :) 

 

Groke

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #13 on: Feb 13, 2015, 11:34:47 PM »
Where do you find all those innocents, cupcake?

Groke

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Re: hard limits... and the opposite
« Reply #14 on: Feb 14, 2015, 08:28:48 AM »
Is it though? Don't you feel like you're topping from the bottom?

Anyway, hats off to you for your services to the BDSM community!