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91
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Lyco on May 25, 2018, 08:24:53 PM »
Transsexuals closed Michigan Womyn's Music Festival.

No, Lisa Vogel closed it. Iím sure the issues around trans inclusion didnít help or headline acts like The Indigo Girls refusing to play there until an inclusive dialogue was started but my point still remains. You said yourself you never went.

Iíve had some lovely holidays that Iím sure cost more than a ticket to Michigan but I never once went to the festival. Nice idea but Iíd rather spend a week on a beach and at least Iím open about that. Iíve heard so many people lament the end of it and not one has actually been.

And of the people I do know who have been, the most striking thing Iíve heard said is that it was never a touchy feely lovely welcoming place that it was presented to be. It was the scene with all its complexities and factions and bloody arguments writ large. Leather dykes, WAVAW, vanilla, butch, political. All arguing over entitlement. As it ever was.

Lesbians donít really like each other. Or at least donít like anyone outside their particular lesbian tribe. Weíve been arguing about the same shit for decades, just wrapping it up in different language.

Erm... Economic differences between women and men? "The pink pound" was not coined to refer to lesbian households.

I used to think that was exactly the issue. Genuinely. Right up until the 90s. And then I looked at all the middle class lesbians I knew taking their own drinks into clubs because they didnít want to pay bar prices. I looked at all my peers buying houses and squeaking about paying a quid for a bottle of water in a bar. Itís not true to say that all women do not have money. Some donít, of course I know that. Iíve done my fair share of minimum wage jobs and counting the change in my pocket but that isnít all of us, all of the time.

There is plenty of lesbian money in the economy, we just choose not to spend it on anything that isnít a priority for us. And up until very recently our own spaces simply werenít.

Itís only now that this whole anti trans narrative has gained traction that so many people are squeaking about the loss of our spaces. Itís a false narrative. Convenient but false.

Iím reading some of the posts on these threads and thinking that Iím sure they are contravening the user agreement but no one seems to care and ultimately my contributions are pointless as no one will listen but hey ho.

Blythe, Iím disappointed in you. Iím disappointed in the way you are driving this conversation on here. Youíre becoming the Nigel Farage of Lexit.
92
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Madge Hooks on May 25, 2018, 08:14:28 PM »
All of the above.

You can set your watch by lesbian finding other lesbian, shacking up in suburbia/the countryside/Brighton/middle earth, never to be seen again unless you get a dinner party invite that gets rearranged several times until you finally work out the wizardy directions supplied.
93
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Lust for Life on May 25, 2018, 08:02:07 PM »
But lesbians have never really supported the scene. Not really.

Southopia, The Glass Bar, The Oak Bar, Due South, Rackets, The Drum, Xanadu's, Duke of Wellington, The Entertainer etc. etc. etc.

None of those venue's (or the others that I just can't remember) closed because of transwomen, they closed because lesbians do not spend money and while they quite like ranting on the internet (I include myself in this) they can't be bothered to go out and spend any actual money. Yes, there are successes like the Candy Bar and others but none of them targets the demographic you are all talking about.

Of course, some places are no longer there because of development/regeneration etc but half my mates are promoters/DJ's etc and I've been on the periphery of this for 30 years. It's almost impossible to set up a women-only space and have anyone regularly support it. Whether it's a bar or anything else.

On a Wednesday there's a discussion group at GTW. It's women only and it's been there for 35 years. I used to go reasonably regularly and I've often bumped into people I haven't seen for years revisiting, it's nice like that. There will always be someone new and someone old at every week. It's a women-only space, it's free, it's nice and welcoming and there are mostly good people there. And the only reason that space still exists is because of a core group who have literally been there every week for the entire time. 35 years of recycling Coming Out, Religion, Breaking Up and Parents. And I am bloody grateful they have and still do because that space is still there for anyone who needs it. Not because of me and my fair weather attendance but because women, every week have gone out in all weathers so that space can still exist.

The notion that lesbians are being erased is an easy one to hitch to the anti trans narrative but it's not true. In a scene sense, we erased ourselves with our complete lack of interest in it.

Erm... Economic differences between women and men? "The pink pound" was not coined to refer to lesbian households.
94
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: How far does your sexuality stretch?
« Last post by Lust for Life on May 25, 2018, 07:56:21 PM »
That is unbelievable, Slantryhme.

On what grounds???

I see an intelligent, reasonable, trans-woman, giving her opinion.

There is no abuse in what she writes.

https://medium.com/@mirandayardley/transgender-ideology-does-not-support-women-2d00089e237a

This, for example, not so much as a swear word.

She is the kind of trans-women I can respect and would listen to.   And she's been banned?

Incidentally, I was banned for posting on the Guardian website for saying that men have YY chromosomes and women have XY chromosomes.  At one time that would have merely been considered a biological fact.  Now its a reason to block someone.

I wouldn't block you for making a mistake, but the biological fact which for the vast majority of human beings is true is not quite what you said. Men have XY, women have XX. I don't know if YY exists, but if it does it's very rare, as is XXY.
95
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Julesô on May 25, 2018, 04:21:12 PM »
Transsexuals closed Michigan Womyn's Music Festival.

96
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Lyco on May 25, 2018, 03:56:16 PM »
But lesbians have never really supported the scene. Not really.

Southopia, The Glass Bar, The Oak Bar, Due South, Rackets, The Drum, Xanadu's, Duke of Wellington, The Entertainer etc. etc. etc.

None of those venue's (or the others that I just can't remember) closed because of transwomen, they closed because lesbians do not spend money and while they quite like ranting on the internet (I include myself in this) they can't be bothered to go out and spend any actual money. Yes, there are successes like the Candy Bar and others but none of them targets the demographic you are all talking about.

Of course, some places are no longer there because of development/regeneration etc but half my mates are promoters/DJ's etc and I've been on the periphery of this for 30 years. It's almost impossible to set up a women-only space and have anyone regularly support it. Whether it's a bar or anything else.

On a Wednesday there's a discussion group at GTW. It's women only and it's been there for 35 years. I used to go reasonably regularly and I've often bumped into people I haven't seen for years revisiting, it's nice like that. There will always be someone new and someone old at every week. It's a women-only space, it's free, it's nice and welcoming and there are mostly good people there. And the only reason that space still exists is because of a core group who have literally been there every week for the entire time. 35 years of recycling Coming Out, Religion, Breaking Up and Parents. And I am bloody grateful they have and still do because that space is still there for anyone who needs it. Not because of me and my fair weather attendance but because women, every week have gone out in all weathers so that space can still exist.

The notion that lesbians are being erased is an easy one to hitch to the anti trans narrative but it's not true. In a scene sense, we erased ourselves with our complete lack of interest in it.

97
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Slantrhyme on May 25, 2018, 03:45:13 PM »
 I think there would be the support and plenty of experience, clout and funding would be more problematic I fear.
98
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Chewwy on May 25, 2018, 02:41:00 PM »
Tonight we've an event to mark 30 years since Section 28.  It's proving hard to get the teachers along to this, but I'm told e/one's breaking up for halfterm / exam season etc, so bad timing really.   :-\

But if anyone does fancy, PM me.
99
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Madge Hooks on May 25, 2018, 02:25:36 PM »
Going back to getting the L out of LGBT, what would that look like exactly? Is it to remove it from Stonewallís remit? Clearly lesbians are a divided church at the moment, so I donít think an offshoot single focus lesbian organisation - however utopic that sounds - would be very successful in terms of support, funding, clout and experience, especially if the founding reason is backlash against trans movement. Itís a very negative stance.

Or is it conceptual? ďIím a lesbian and I donít subscribe to being part of LGBT or any other letters of alphabet.Ē Ok.

100
Discussion, Chat and Gossip / Re: Lesbian Erasure
« Last post by Julesô on May 25, 2018, 01:53:24 PM »
Well, at least this thread has made me feel less alone and more optimistic.

Its a horrible feeling that you are one of the minority who can see the Emperor is actually starkers.  You KNOW he is, but if you point it out you are subject to double-speak and hostility.  (Or worse, patronising "explanations" that insult your intelligence)

This situation is so bizarre is actually quite frightening.  What next?
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